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Lindsey Hall: I'm Lindsey Hall, Head of thought leadership at S&P Global Sustainable1.   

Esther Whieldon: And I'm Esther Whieldon, a senior writer on the Sustainable1 Thought Leadership Team   

Lindsey Hall: Welcome to ESG Insider, a podcast hosted by S&P Global, where we explore environmental, social and governance issues that are shaping investor activity and company strategy. 

Esther, happy March! This is our first episode of a new month and to mark the occasion, we’re going to be trying something a little bit different here. Because March is also Women’s History Month and next week, March 8th, we'll be celebrating International Women’s Day. 

Today marks our first episode in a special series we’re doing to focus on women in leadership. 

Esther Whieldon: If you’ve been following the sustainability space in recent years you likely know that diversity in leadership has gotten increasing attention from many stakeholders. We’ve seen investors calling for diversity on company boards and management teams. And in some parts of the world, that push for diversity has extended to laws and regulations. 

And, if you’ve been following the space, it also won’t surprise you to learn that despite the increasing focus, the number of women in top roles remains relatively low. Recent research from S&P Global found that women represented just 5.4% of CEOs in 2022, slightly up from 5% in 2021. We’ll include a link to that research in our show notes.

Lindsey Hall: We know what the numbers and the data show us. But we wanted to understand what’s behind the numbers? How do the few women who make it to the top of their companies get there, and what challenges do they face along the way? How do they lead, what’s their approach to diversity equity and inclusion, and what’s their advice to aspiring leaders? 

Well, to answer those questions we are going to be speaking to women CEOs from across industries and all over the world over the next several weeks. Will be hearing from executives in banking, insurance, consumer products, real estate, energy and more. 

First up, today we’re going to be hearing from the CEO of a large European company, Norsk Hydro. It’s an aluminum and energy producer, with a big focus on renewables. And for this interview let's bring in our Europe-based colleague Jennifer Laidlaw. So Jennifer, what can you tell us about your interview?  

Jennifer Laidlaw: Hi Lindsey, hi Esther. I spoke to Hilde Aasheim, who is CEO of a big Norwegian firm that has operations in 40 countries. I thought she would be a really interesting person to talk to because Norway is one of the most advanced countries in terms of equality. It has generous parental leave and was one of the first countries to set gender quotas for boards. And those policies are paying off. Norway has the highest percentage of women CEOs at 13.4% in the S&P Global Broad Market Index, which includes many of the world’s largest companies.

Hilde explained to me how she hopes to be a role model for women across her company, not just in Norway but in other countries where Hydro is present. She also talks about her career path and how that has influenced her management style.  Here’s our conversation.

Well, thank you very much, Hilde, for joining us on the podcast that we're doing for International Women's Day. And to start off with, I want to get a sense from you about diversity in your company because you've said diversity is important and necessary for the development of NorSk Hydro. And what steps are you taking to increase gender balance and diversity within the company>

Hilde Aasheim: Thank you for that question. To attract and retain the best talent is a strategic topic for Hydro in order to meet our objective of being the best aluminum company in the world. And that is why we have put diversity, including and belonging as the strategic work program and a strategic topic for the top management of Hydro. 

And so diversity is not only about gender, it's about that everybody can thrive in Hydro. And we worked a lot in terms of inclusive and belonging in the sense that that people can thrive. We work a lot on biases in terms of -- that we are not only focused on a white man or one particular group of people. We -- for Hydro, we need creativity. We need diversity in the sense of diverse perspectives in terms of moving Hydro on the top of the right. It's a strategic topic. And in order to accelerate, we have started to set targets. It's when you can measure things, you get things done. And so we have set a target in terms of female participation, female leadership, but also we are monitoring being an inclusive index in the sense that in our people survey, we ask people to give input on that they feel that the full potential are used so that we can work on improving.

Jennifer Laidlaw: Okay. And you mentioned it was part of your strategy. How does that play out in your data role as CEO, ensuring that the strategy is in place?

Hilde Aasheim: But strategy is then deployed into KPIs into strategic work programs. So in terms of diversity, inclusivity and belonging, I follow that up on every performance meeting I have with the business areas. We follow it up every meeting we have in Corporate Management Board. So it's really about measuring performance when we have put that up as a strategic topic -- but then obviously, in terms of diversity relating to gender, I hope that I can be a role model as a female CEO. When I travel around in the company, I always try to invite myself for the female networks, for example, to have a dialogue with females in terms of how we can make them thrive even more in the company. We discuss structural issues such as day care, such as maternity leaves. How can we make females find it attractive to work for Hydro? And how can we make our company attractive for them?

Jennifer Laidlaw: So you mentioned maternity leave, that's obviously something that's very important. What apps would you say maybe helps diversity? Is it leadership style? Is it things like education? Is it government policy or flexible working for women? And you mentioned in the beginning quotas as well. I mean, what would you say are really the things that help diversity within your company?

Hilde Aasheim: Obviously, it's some of the mix of what you mentioned. But I strongly believe in people leadership. I focus a lot on that. And because I think that, again, it come back to inclusive and belonging that we, as a leader, people feel that they have a voice in, around the table that we are as leaders cultivating an environment where we want people to speak of that we need different perspectives. And I think that is important. 

We can work on, let's say, a turnkey leave or daycare and the people -- we should make people feel good about coming to work in Hydro and that they are appreciated, and that's what people leadership is about to create that engagement and that we appreciate the diversity of the organization. 

Jennifer Laidlaw: Research has shown that a diverse workplace, you can even have an impact on the bottom line and just increased productivity as well. I mean can you maybe give some examples of what your experience has been in your own business life and at Hydro as well? 

Hilde Aasheim: Well, I think that in order to be the best in your industry, you have to bring forward all the talent, let's say perspective. And if we are -- just have a team where everybody is alike, you don't get the to get the different perspectives. You just go on as you always have done. So to -- I have experienced myself to have young people coming into the team, international, let's say, not just a group of Norwegians in here working out of Norway to really get a much broader flavor of different perspectives, is really accelerating your own thinking, but also your performance. It challenges your leadership in terms of not just pointing to your own opinions, but to seek different inputs before you take a decision makes the decision better.

Jennifer Laidlaw: When do you have any specific examples of maybe when you had to take a decision and how the fact that you have a more diverse workforce to actually help make that decision?

Hilde Aasheim: Well, I think that it's about how you work. I seldom make a decision on my own. I use my team as a way of bringing forward or bringing up ideas and also for -- in my decision-making, we go around the table to make sure that we get all the perspective up before we take a decision. And in the corporate management board of Hydro, I have 40% female participation. I have people that come from different backgrounds. Even though there are Norwegians in my team, several Norwegians in my team, they have different offering. They have different backgrounds. They have different experience. And then also I have people that have an international experience, which also gives a lot of support to how we manage and how we lead Hydro.

Jennifer Laidlaw: Okay. Now you operate in countries, in 40 countries all over the world. And what would you say your role is as a company in promoting diversity in other countries where you're present?

Hilde Aasheim: Well, first of all, it's very much based on our values. The 3 values in Hydro is about care, courage and collaboration. 

And the diversity, inclusivity, and belonging strategic program that we are running throughout the company is something that we discuss in all the different countries. Even though there are dilemmas, for example, when it comes to sexual orientation, for example, we know that in some countries, homosexuality is not legal. 

We still want to discuss and to include people in our workforce that are diverse. And I think that it takes some courage to do that. But I think that it's embedded in our values. It's embedded in how we how we see the workforce and to be able to attract and retain people. But there are dilemmas. We are flagging in most of our sites on the pride day, for example, but we also have to comply with the laws and regulations. But the fact that we are there, the fact that we can speak up and try to influence our position when it comes to valuing all people's orientation. And we do that because we -- it's a business case, but also that we have the values in terms of caring about all people.

Jennifer Laidlaw: Yes. I mean, how do you deal with countries where there's big cultural differences, especially when it comes to women unit, you're President in places like Qatar, Saudi Arabia, I mean, you're present all over the world. How do you deal with maybe a country where women don't have the same rights as men.

Hilde Aasheim: Well, we put it up on the agenda in the companies where we are located, like in Qatar. I mean on the people agenda there, we are a 50% owner in Qatalum, and we want to influence the agenda in our plant in Qatar. But we have to realize that, for example, when it comes to females, so when it comes to Union, there are different views, but the fact that we are there, we can actually influence and move this debate forward rather than sort of holding back. And we believe that we can make a better growth in a way by rather being there and influencing rather than just pulling out because the country's law is challenging us.

Jennifer Laidlaw: Right. And just sort of in your path to becoming CEO, I'm just interested because obviously, you have huge responsibilities. And I just wondered like what are some of the major challenges you've had to overcome in your position. And how did you deal with these challenges?

Hilde Aasheim: Well, I would rather talk about the opportunities that I've had because I have been in this industry now for 35 years, and I started off as an accountant, and I live in many different positions in the line, in the staff positions. I've been in I've been the plant manager. I've been working in HR. I've been working as an EVP for business area and hard work and wanted to do a good job, has allowed me to rotate to get new positions. 

I think I've been blessed with good bosses that have seen what I've been doing that I have been passionate about my work and that they have promoted me. In fact, I have never applied for the job because I have had the privilege of having leaders that have seen what I can do and also promoted me to positions that I even haven't thought about myself. 

When I have got these questions, could you continue to go from being an accountant to be in HR and I asked the question, well, I haven't thought about that myself, then I have also taken the positions that I've been asked to do, and that has given me a fantastic opportunity to rotate to get knowledge and experience in each step that have been taken and which also have given me the competence and the relevance to take on a new position. 

And so when people have asked me about to take on the CEO position, I felt that I have sort of taken -- gone the steps on the road towards a broader and broader accountability and which has been a privilege for me in all these years to gain experience that is the best thing you can do, in my opinion, to take the chance when you have, say, yes, rather than thinking about all the challenges, but rather look at opportunities. 

That's also the learning from my side that we have to be good leaders to see the talent and to give them new opportunities. And that is why I also worked a lot on succession planning in the company in terms of seeing that we have a good pipeline of talent that we can work on a can give new opportunities because that is what I have experienced over all these years that I've had leaders that have seen me and given me opportunities. 

Jennifer Laidlaw: Okay, excellent. So a real very broad experience actually. I mean how much do you think that's kind of influenced your leadership style perhaps?

Hilde Aasheim: I think you are giving me a lot of weight over the years. I've learned it by doing and to lead in different environments to lead different people, for example, being a plant manager was a fantastic experience to be close to the operation, to be close to the operators that is working 365 days a year, around the clock, which when you are in a position at the head office, you have the experience to how it is like to be out there in the operation, and you get to understand more about the challenges and opportunities that is out there in the market, in operation, working in a staff position is also interesting to see how you could -- how you work in a staff to influence in terms of shaping and safeguarding the company? 

So to have been in different positions you have explored your leadership portfolio because leadership is a balancing act. You have to work with your heart and your head you have to work short term and long term. And so you do that both consciously and unconsciously when you've had such a broad experience that I have had over the years.

Jennifer Laidlaw: I mean one of the things that always wanted to ask a CEO is how do you sleep at night because you have a 35,000 people in your hands, you have them under your responsibility. So how do you deal with that responsibility?

Hilde Aasheim: Well, the toughest part of that responsibility is to see to that everybody comes home safe from work. And that is the toughest call when you get that telephone at midnight, where one of our colleagues is airlifted and on the way to hospital, and we don't know if he or she will survive. That is the toughest call being a CEO for 32,000 people around the world. 

Other than that, I sleep very well because I have a very good team around me. I hardly take any decision by myself through such things. We work together. We have a structured decision process. So all that it's not something that takes my night's sleep, but the safety of our people, that's what I really care about.

Jennifer Laidlaw: Okay. Well, it's good to know that you do manage to sleep at night. Well, thank you very much for your time. I you appreciate it very much.

Hilde Aasheim: Thank you, I hope that I contribute to setting diversity on the agenda.

Esther Whieldon: So remember that S&P Global Research, I mentioned at the top of the episode? That also looked at the language CEOs used to communicate. That research found that women's CEOs displayed more diversity, empathy and adaptability in their leadership styles. And Jen, I heard that come through in the way that Hilde described our leadership sale and how she works with our colleagues.

Jennifer Laidlaw: Yes. And she does seem to generally care about her staff and enjoys going out in the field and speaking to people working in the company's plants or just learning about the challenges they might be facing or simply hearing about their daily routine.

Lindsey Hall: Yes. Thank you, Jennifer, for sharing that interview, and I'm really excited to hear what's in store in our upcoming episodes. So please stay tuned as we roll out our special series on women in leadership. We'll be hearing from other women's CEOs and executives from different sectors and regions around the world to learn more about how they lead and their approach to diversity, equity and inclusion.

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of ESG Insider and a special thanks to our producer, Kyle Cangialosi. Please be sure to subscribe to our podcast and sign up for our weekly newsletter, ESG Insider. See you next time.

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