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Lindsey Hall: Hi. I'm Lindsey Hall, Head of Thought Leadership at S&P Global Sustainable1.

Esther Whieldon: And I'm Esther Whieldon, a Senior Writer on the Sustainable1 Thought Leadership team.

Lindsey Hall: Welcome to ESG Insider, an S&P Global podcast, where Esther and I take you inside the environmental, social and governance issues that are shaping the rapidly evolving sustainability landscape.

Esther Whieldon: We've covered a lot of sustainability topics over the years on this podcast. One we haven't previously touched on: sports. But summer is in full swing, the finals of the European football championships takes place in Germany this Sunday. And later in July, the Summer Olympics kicks off in Paris, France. So we thought what better time to talk about sustainability in sports.

Lindsey Hall: A lot of times when I think about sports, it's in the context of my personal life or exercise or entertainment. I spend a lot of time on the sidelines of my kids' soccer fields. But of course, professional sports are also a big business with a lot of stakeholders involved, everyone from athletes and sponsors to fans, investors, even regulators. And as we'll hear from today's guest, the sporting world is seeing a rising focus on sustainability.

To learn more, we're talking today with Christian Hartmann, the CEO of the Global Sustainability Benchmark in Sports, or GSBS. This is an independent not-for-profit that aims to tackle the challenges of the 21st century by analyzing and rating the sustainability performance of professional sports organizations. I'll let Christian explain more about what exactly GSBS does.

You'll hear him mention FIFA. That's an international governing body for football, or soccer for our U.S. listeners. And he also talks about how the CSRD is impacting sporting organizations. That's the EU's Corporate Sustainability Reporting Directive, a set of sustainability reporting rules for companies.

Okay. Here's Christian.

Christian Hartmann: We are working across all kind of sports, it has to be a professional sports organizations. So we're looking at, nowadays, 4 types of organizations. On the one hand, it's the clubs, the franchises, the teams of the sports industry. We're looking also at the competitions, and so, like the leagues. And we're looking at the associations like, for example, the global associations like FIFA or UEFA, you might know.

And we're also, nowadays, looking -- as requested by the industry, we are looking at the venues. So meaning, we're looking at the actual venues where sports takes place. So that's very important. And we are doing this on a global scale. That means we are really looking for organizations across the globe, working with us and trying to give them the opportunity to emphasize on their performance when it comes to sustainability.

Lindsey Hall: Okay. And let's talk a little about geography as well. Sports is a huge part of the culture all around the globe. Do you see different approaches and uptake of sustainability efforts in different parts of the world?

Christian Hartmann: Yes, indeed, we see, and that's one of the big challenges also today, to be honest. So we see that as -- I'm German and I'm based out of the U.K., so with a very good understanding about the European market, obviously. We see that in Europe. The topic is very dynamic. We see a lot of changes and news literally happening all the time.

But we have, especially, for example, the CSRD coming up or getting in place in Europe, and that affects a lot of these organizations that we are obviously looking at. So all the organizations that have a certain size are going to be mandatory working on CSRD or providing corresponding information. And therefore, we have more dynamic on this side of the ocean. Therefore, that's a big challenge for the organization.

We see that there is interest from around the globe, and the organizations are now -- or literally every part of the globe, organizations are a little bit more advanced than others. So we have some organizations that are very ambitious and trying to be a real role model for their peers, while we have still organizations, obviously, that are not there yet, which is in every industry, the same, I would say.

Lindsey Hall: Okay. So we've done maybe a couple of hundred episodes of this podcast at this point. And we've talked about sustainability in so many different aspects of life, but never in sports. This focus on sustainability in sports, how has this changed over time?

Christian Hartmann: Yes. Very often still sports being looked at as sports and not business or industry-wise. And therefore, that's why still some people are a little bit surprised sometimes when we are introducing what we are doing, to be honest. And therefore, the sports industry nowadays is -- these organizations are massive organizations. They have hundreds, sometimes more employees for themselves or with themselves and therefore, these organizations having a massive impact through their own business behavior through and through.

And we know that the sports industry or the sports in general, usually has a more historically grown relation, if you want, so with certain aspects, which are usually more social driven. So we have the aspect of healthy living, being active and maybe also companionship and pushing for something together. So those are the values that we expect from sports.

While many organizations or individuals and people will think of environmental topics first when they're talking about or thinking of sustainability, what we are doing that's very important, we're looking at the whole spectrum of sustainability. So from the financial industry, I would say, ESG, so environmental, social and governance topics.

Lindsey Hall: So I think what I'm hearing you say is when you talk about sustainability in sports, it's not just the environmental focus. It's this whole spectrum that encompasses these thing that are really intrinsic to sports, like the impact on the community and bringing people together.

Christian Hartmann: Exactly. So when we are talking about sustainability and when we're talking about our rating, we are looking at the organization as a whole. So we are looking really detailed in what all the organizations are set up. When it comes to sustainability, for example, how are they set up? So we were thinking, is there someone dedicated to the topic that is taking responsibility for this all year round and not just someone doing this on the side additionally because there is a certain interest?

Or we're looking also at the financial sustainability of sports organizations because there is a big difference when it comes to this. We're looking at has the senior management bought into this topic because, obviously, as we all know, as employees, we know that if you don't have the backing by the senior leadership team, it's going to be hard. And sustainability is something that's still very often being associated with it costs us something and we have to put some effort in it and that it's more kind of a burden than just an opportunity that they can look at and therefore, the industry is now developing very quickly. And we are looking at the whole spectrum.

Emissions are nowadays a standard topic, and everybody is aware of it. But we are also looking at what's the consumption, paper consumption. We're looking at how are the organizations developing their own workforce. So how much money, how much time do they actually invest to develop and support their team. That is actually the organization at the end. And we know that many of the assets are nowadays even demanding more from their employers.

And therefore, we're also looking at are those organizations providing support for the athletes for the time after their career because that's a social aspect of their business, obviously. It's a very special part that they are employing here. And therefore, we are looking at also how this organization is paying maternity leave, for example, for female athletes or even male athletes.

But also from the other side, from the government topic, we're looking at how is the Board made up, what's the diversity look like, any ethical topics that have been come up. So when we are talking about sustainability, yes, we're looking at the whole spectrum of it and digging really deep into how the organizations are actually performing.

Lindsey Hall: It's interesting. What you're saying is all the same things that we would look at with any other company when it comes to considering their sustainability would apply to a sporting organization as well, including things like parental leave policies.

Christian Hartmann: Exactly. Nowadays, these organizations that we are talking about here position themselves not as sports organizations anymore or these small little romantic clubs from a certain community. Now these organizations position themselves as entertainment organizations against Netflix and Amazon and other providers because when it comes to your time that you are able to consume any entertainment, it's about your decision. Are you going to watch a football match or a baseball match? Or are you spending your time on a movie or a television series? And for the organizations, it's more about hospitality, it's about customer experience, it's about selling an experience. And therefore, we are not talking about the organizations as sports organizations from a traditional perspective.

Lindsey Hall: Okay. So you're describing this landscape where there's a trend toward increased focus on sustainability in sports, where is that pressure coming from?

Christian Hartmann: The pressure is coming literally from many, many sides. So we see that more and more fans and spectators are actually being aware of the topic and also when buying merchandise or whatever, they are looking about how or where it's been sourced from. So we have a lot of pressure from the individual spectator and fan or from even fan associations.

But what we witnessed, which is obviously more mandatory, is regulations. So as I mentioned earlier, we have -- in Europe, we have certain developments from a regulation perspective that organizations have to act now.

We have with the German football league, for example, the one league that made sustainability part of their licensing process. So in Europe, where you can get relegated when you're playing football, for example, and you can get out of your league and you have to apply for a new license year in, year out every year again. And therefore, if you apply for this, you have to provide certain KPIs and you have to provide certain information about which actions you have taken and what are you planning.

So this obviously then pushes the organizations to taking action because otherwise, they might going to lose their license, which sounds very harsh, but that's at the end, the reality. And we see that more and more other regulating bodies are taking similar steps. And I think that's obviously very, very powerful.

While also topics like CSRD here in Europe, where the pressure is not coming from inside the industry, it's coming from a general regulation perspective. But even beyond, we witness as an organization nowadays that we have multiple stakeholder interests. So we are talking to many investors, sponsors, even financing organizations, because these organizations themselves have nowadays their own sustainability strategy, their own sustainability performance. They have certain goals they want to and have to achieve. And therefore, they understand that sustainability within their stakeholder groups, it can be a reputational risk nowadays.

So sponsors might be -- might consider at one point not looking just for the sporting success anymore, they are now looking also at other aspects of the business of sports. And therefore, there is where sustainability is stepping in and we, as an organization, are able to provide an in-depth understanding how do the organizations actually perform and what is the organization prioritizing to a certain extent, and is it heading into the same direction because the sponsors and the investors, they have to explain at one point why are they spending the money on certain organizations.

Lindsey Hall: I would love to know a little bit more about what are you hearing from the investment community.

Christian Hartmann: Yes, they are very active, and we see that it's growing. We have more and more organizations being invested in sports. We have organizations that have a lot of power in certain organizations and therefore, are able to drive certain change or not. And when talking to these organizations, for them, it's very much about risk because they want to understand how risky is the investment for them. And we have certain topics that are maybe a little bit more risk for these organizations than others.

And a simple example is, how are the organizations may be treating certain climate risks for them? So when an organization or an arena or a stadium is maybe located closely to a river or some other water points, it might be at risk for flood. So obviously, that can affect the, on the one hand, the match day so might be not being able to play the game also. On the other hand, the insurance companies, for example, are looking into this because we see this now more and more on a regular basis that we have certain climate risks that are now always taken into account.

And obviously, what the stakeholders like investors, like financing organizations or insurance companies want the organization to see is taking the right steps to, on the one hand, avoid certain risks, but also on the other hand, maybe being prepared for certain results of such potential risks. So therefore, again, it's a broad spectrum and the investors having different interests in the organizations.

I've just been on a call with a massive wealth investor 3 weeks ago. And for them, it was very much about, "Why do you care about the financial health of the organization? For us, it's all about the profitability. So how much money can we earn?" And therefore, this is where we see sometimes -- obviously, we try to serve a broad spectrum of needs of the stakeholders of the industry.

We also care about what are the fans looking for. Obviously, the fans want their clubs to be financially healthy, to be stable, to be there for another few hundred years, ideally. And sometimes the investors, obviously, they have maybe slightly different interests. So it's very much depending on from which angle we're looking at this. And we try to serve, obviously, all the needs of the organizations. And we're calculating or we're looking at the profitability of the organizations. It's taking into account when evaluating the financial performance of the organizations. So it's very broad, again.

Lindsey Hall: Thank you for that lay of the land. You've described a little bit the landscape that you operate in. But I wonder, Christian, if we could take a little bit of a step back. If I could just ask you about your own personal background. I'm guessing you have a huge interest in sports, but do you mind sharing a little bit more about just how you came into this role and telling us more about your personal background?

Christian Hartmann: Yes, of course. So yes, you're totally right. I was and I'm still a massive sports lover. Again, I'm German. So I'm -- for me, football was the center of my life for a long time. And I studied sports, myself, sports and biology, before I had very bad luck breaking my leg 3 times. Ended my small football career when I was 23. So that was pretty harsh to be very honest. But I never could let go of the love of sport and especially football.

And I've been very lucky when I started my professional career. I worked -- then I had to stop my sports and biology studies. I worked a good portion of my young career or early career in the automotive industry, and while 15, 17 years ago, nobody was talking about sustainability. Some years ago now, I met 2 former professional football players, and we've done our MBA in sports management together. And we discussed for a long time that why is there no independent organization that looks at the sustainability performance of professional sports organizations. And we discussed this very often and very heavily, but never really had imagined, okay, what can we do?

But then we started actually working on it. And when the pandemic hit, everything went on hold and -- or everything has been very quiet, as we all know. And that point, we said, okay, now it feels like it's the time and we get this started. And we were -- started reaching out to organizations from around the globe. We spoke to many different sports organizations from -- literally from Australia up to North America and South in Latin America. And we found that very quickly that the topic is important, but it's in a very early stage of the industry. While we are now in our fourth reporting cycle as the GSBS and we see even just in this very short time span, to be honest, 4 years, we see a dramatic growth and development over the last 4 years.

When we started, we had a massive challenge with data availability. So many organizations literally had no data. This is still sometimes the case. We nowadays have organizations being better prepared and we see a quick shift. And therefore, I was very lucky to bring together my passion for sustainability and my long-term experience with the love for sport. And with the help of a few friends, we've created this. And now the start was really rocky, to be honest. It was not that easy. And now we are here and we are actually doing really well. We have several organizations for this year that are joining us.

We're going to have the first time ever a Brazilian football club, Atlético Mineiro, for example, being rated for us -- by us this year. For the first time, we're going to have a cricket team, Desert Vipers from Dubai. Or Silverstone, one of the most iconic racing circuits here in the U.K., going to be rated by us because we've been in a lucky position that we gained trust with these organizations and they understand the benefit of what we are doing and the support we can provide to a certain extent.

Lindsey Hall: So truly a broad geographic reach and a range of different sports, as you've just given several examples.

Christian Hartmann: Yes. So as it always says in our name global, so we really believe that as you pointed out earlier, sports is a global phenomenon. And we know that some regions might have different preferences for different sports. But at the end, we all love this fight for a ball or whatever it is, and we all love to watch it and we love the experience. We love to go to a stadium. We love to celebrate together with our fans, but also being maybe sad about a loss or whatever. So we know that sport is a global phenomenon, and therefore we believe that sport, as a whole, has so much power. It has really the chance to help us as a global society to become more sustainable.

We want these organizations to be role models, to take a real action and being really accountable for their own actions. And one of the big steps into this direction, obviously, is to be able to measure your performance, whatever it is what we're talking about, but measuring and then obviously adapting and taking the right actions is a very straightforward thing. Because if these organizations being loved by millions around the world, if they are really being accountable, being transparent and really building up their sustainability power for it, we know that the fans are also more likely to follow this example. But even beyond, what we obviously see that not only the fans being impacted, we also see that this massive ecosystem of sports being affected. So when we're thinking nowadays of the sports organizations with their -- I don't know how many thousands of merchandise articles these organizations have, they've been produced somewhere.

Obviously, all these suppliers in the supply chain being affected by the right actions, and therefore, the sports organizations have a massive impact. They have an impact on their own employees with, again, several hundreds of employees, and they have a massive impact throughout the whole supply chain. So therefore, again, we might think of sport as sports, but it's business also.

Lindsey Hall: You mentioned in those early years that it was rocky at times. And I wonder if you could talk to me a little bit about what are the ongoing biggest challenges that you face as you build up your organization and get people more familiar with the idea of sustainability in sports. And then also, what are the biggest opportunities that you see on the flip side?

Christian Hartmann: Yes, you're right. It was rocky in the beginning because some people said to us, "Look, you are the one looking at our homework in a subject that we are not really good at." So again, these organizations are very good at hospitality and merchandising and experience and entertainment. But for a long time, nobody ever bothered them with what is your carbon emission footprint look like because, obviously, the organizations and the athletes and all these people have to get around the world to attend matches and have to go there and this, and obviously which we totally understand. But nowadays, it is at least expected that they are cautious about it and aware of the impact they might have through their actions.

And again, for a long time, they've not been bothered with anything. Nobody cared about their water consumption. We have some of the biggest football clubs in the world. Even some time ago where they couldn't tell you their water consumption because they never really cared about it, because they could afford to pay the bill and they just pay the bill and don't care about it. But obviously, when you are thinking about nowadays where we all want to be more reliable and more cautious about our consumptions, you have to monetize and you have to calculate this. And therefore, the only action -- the only true way through it is that you actually know and measure what you've consumed.

And in the beginning, it was really tough because the organizations also very often not being really familiar with the topic itself. If there has been some kind of awareness around it, it's usually been more from a communication perspective, which, again, fair enough and no finger-pointing. The organizations know how to use certain topics to communicate to create nice campaigns. But taking actual actions to reduce certain consumptions or whatever we might want to achieve, that takes maybe other expertise, a different expertise that you might not expect from the marketing department. So therefore, they've been understaffed very often because, again, they don't know about the topic.

And therefore, we saw that they've also been sometimes even a little bit scared, which is totally fair enough because they've never been bothered with this. And I always say, it's okay where you are now. It's just not okay if you're at the same staging point in a few years' time. So for us, it's very much about making them aware of being transparent and open about it and being really just being proud of where you are at the moment and saying, okay, we want to be better and we're taking this, and these steps will help the organizations also from inside out because we see that many of the organizations, even getting better internal dynamic when they, for example, get a first time a rating with us because they see an outcome of, oh, we are asked to get the data collection, we are asked -- even asked to provide information. But then it ends up in a report that we publish and we can't really see the development.

With our GSBS rating, obviously, we can showcase on an annual basis for the organizations how are they developing. And we learned from several of the organizations that they are actually create internal enthusiasm because they want to play their role for the organization to reduce certain aspects or whatever they are responsible for with their department to become better. And nowadays, we see that more and more organizations are really doing a good job, and we have some very good examples. While I tend to be maybe very critical, and we -- obviously, we challenge the organizations. We position ourselves as a partner of the industry, but we still challenge them. We want them to be better.

We have certain organizations, and it's developing very quickly that are doing a fantastic job. Some of the organizations are already at a very high level and really looking now for the small stones to turn because they already have done so much in the past, while other organizations are maybe in an earlier stage. The biggest challenge, coming back to your question, is data availability, data management, data collection because that's not that straightforward per se.

Lindsey Hall: Okay. When it comes to data, can you tell me more about some of the things you are looking at when you're measuring sustainability in sports?

Christian Hartmann: Yes, of course. So as I mentioned, we're applying the concept of ESG from the financial industry into the sports industry, though that means we are looking at ESG. But for us, when we've gone through this development as an organization, we very early found out that the industry is in an early stage and it's a little bit special. Therefore, we added the fourth pillar for our own need at the end. And that's where we are also looking at, again, the financial sustainability. We're looking at the management approach. Do they have a department? How do they invest their money?

We are looking actually at investment policies. We are looking at investment behavior. We are looking at active investment, maybe sustainable investments. We are looking at the environmental topics and obviously at all the different potential data sets around emissions. We are looking at the data development. We are then looking at water consumption, paper consumption. We are looking at actions that have been done over the last 12 months. And we are looking at actions that are planned for the next 12 months because we are then able to hold them accountable for, "Have they actually conducted this action?"

And what is very helpful when it comes to environmental topics, we're also calculating the intensities. For example, emissions, water and so on, where we obviously understand a little bit better. Putting the actual number in relation to a number like the revenue or the number of employees gives us a better understanding. While we're not using this for the individual rating, but at the end when we're looking at different organizations, and we've done this year for the first time in more detail, it helped organizations a little bit to understand a little bit better how they actually perform against their peers. And we see obviously that there is more to learn from the data. But also to be very honest with you, we are also still in an early stage.

We have nowadays more and more data, and we really try to learn how can we use this data for the better, how can we use it best and providing the organization with more support, with better understanding about themselves, but also maybe helping them to understand what's the next thing they could do. We very often asked about, okay, where should we invest, how should we allocate our budget for next year because they understand that our reporting framework and itself can be used as a guideline.

We're looking at employee numbers. We're looking at gender pay gap. We're looking at the CEO pay ratio, if available. We are looking at human rights violations, child labor violation. How do they try to avoid certain violations? So it's very, very detailed that we are looking at. We're looking even, are they allowed to collect bargaining, for example. And we're also looking at the governance side of things.

We are even looking at what is the succession planning of the Board Members. Is there any clear structure how they've been onboarded, how they've been selective, any certain criteria? We're looking at ethics and policies. We're looking at sustainability policies. We really try to get the best understanding of the organizations and learning from them.

And also, for us, it's very much about spreading the word, providing best practices to other organizations because there is no need to invent the fire anew all the time. Very often, there are very good concepts out there. But when organizations try to keep them for themselves, obviously, we lose time as a society and we want to use their synergies. And that's why we also see a lot of our data can be used very much for the better.

Lindsey Hall: Competition is obviously an intrinsic part of sports. So this idea of sharing best practices, I could see potentially being anathema to some in the sporting world. Talk to me about what does winning look like in sustainability for you.

Christian Hartmann: You're absolutely right. So winning is at the heart of the organization. And obviously, that's why we love them for, what we love them for at the end. We obviously try to push them. We want them to be better. But when you ask me what does winning look like in sustainability in sports? I would say getting better and getting your thumb is the first step. And that's already the first big win for organizations when they are able to commit to themselves, "Look, we're not perfect. That's fine. But we want to be better, and we need to understand more about us."

So I think that's a very good first step to be aware of, okay, being realistic, being honest to ourselves. And then obviously, winning is that we see that many of the organizations have maybe specialized in certain aspects of sustainability, and then they become very proud of it. So we have some organizations that might be very proud of being 100% vegan. And they use this also from a communication and commercial perspective because, obviously, while we are talking about sustainability, very often, it's been underestimated that this is a business case.

The organization can use this for their own need and for their own good. They can find their own self, very special positioning in the market, position themselves in a certain way and using this from a communication perspective, even attracting maybe different or even better sponsorship or even other commercial strategic partners. And through this, they win because they will learn also very quickly that it's not going to cost them just money, it will actually save them money.

Very often, it's for us about also emphasizing that the organizations will be more independent, resilient to maybe market prices if you generate your own electricity with the solar panels on the roof of the stadium or if you have your own water turbines or whatever. We have, for example, a Brazilian club that has water turbines nearby. So if you generate your own electricity, obviously, you become more independent. You will even maybe become kind of net positive that you'd be able to sell your electricity or whatever. So it's a big opportunity that's very often still been underestimated.

That maybe comes from the, as you touched on in your question, from the natural of sport being also very often a little bit still thinking short term because it's all about the sporting success and maybe the next weekend or the weekend after. And if the sporting success is not there, then maybe the backing is not there anymore or maybe some money will not be there.

And that's what we try to help the organization with is that it's obviously, when it comes to sustainability and winning in sustainability, it's a long-term commitment. It's nothing that you achieve in a very short period of time. You have to be clear about your strategy and you have to be clear about what you want to achieve and then going forward. And therefore, winning means being transparent, being honest about yourself and then trying to be better year after year, same as in the sport itself, I would say.

Lindsey Hall: How do you avoid greenwashing and identify what is like authentic sustainability?

Christian Hartmann: That's a big topic, obviously, and you're hitting a soft spot there because we see that nowadays, especially in the sports industry, but this industry is under so much attention all the time. And we feel that the organizations think they have to commit to something, they have to pledge for something, they have to put out any goals and so on. And we very often see that the communication is highly professional and setting very high standard and goals, the data very often is not keeping up with it.

So what we've done this year for the first time in our reporting cycle, or what we are right now in the middle of it, is we are also looking at the communication of the organization. So how much time, how much effort, how much they put into the communication around certain topics. This year, it's going to be a trial. It's not going to be rated, but we try to benchmark this then against the actual data. So if the organizations are putting out a lot of communication around their emission goals, so being net positive or net zero or whatever, we're actually then looking at the actual performance. It's how is the data developing.

And we're looking at the actions that have been taken. So there is not an easy answer to this, and we don't say we have the answer yet. We are working on it. But what is very clear, I think, in every industry, if you communicate and if you talk a lot about your goals and try to avoid, on the other hand, greenwashing or misleading information at the end, your data should keep up with your communication. So I think that's also where we see our role in the industry in the long term.

Lindsey Hall: Okay. Christian, I've asked you a ton of questions. Anything that I haven't asked that you think is important for our listeners to understand about this big topic of sustainability in sports.

Christian Hartmann: What I would think is ask yourself also what could you do, how could you maybe support or even demand from your own sport organization that you are maybe supporting or following to a certain extent, or how could you also maybe interact with the organization that you support? What can you do when you're attending a match at an arena or a stadium? We are doing this because, obviously, we believe that sport can play a massive role in fighting the challenges of the 21st century. And therefore, we want sport to be a role model, but we need the individual to follow this role model and therefore, following this good example that we try to push the organization for.

We always have to push ourselves day in, day out at the end to be also more aware of our consumptions, our waste and all these things. This might be small bits, one at a time that we can do, but it will help us. And therefore, we are in this together. And therefore, I think we should really think about what we can do to support our teams even beyond the pitch.

Lindsey Hall: So we heard today from Christian that the sporting world is paying increasing attention to sustainability. And like many of the companies we cover on this podcast, sporting organizations are getting to grips with how to measure and manage their sustainability. And this focus spans environmental, social and governance topics.

Esther Whieldon: Christian said there are a lot of factors driving this change. It's coming from the fans, the employees, the sponsors and even from regulations in some parts of the world. And investors are also increasingly seeking a focus on sustainability from these sporting organizations.

Lindsey Hall: Christian also talked about the role that sports play in building community and bringing people together. And this is a big deal right now in particular. Every year, the World Economic Forum puts out its Global Risk Report. And this year, for 2024, one of the top risks it identified in the near and long term is societal polarization. So in addition to all these sustainability topics we're talking about, you could argue that sports also have a really important role to play in combating that polarization and creating social cohesion.

Esther Whieldon: We'll be bringing you more episodes about sustainability in sports this summer. So please stay tuned.

Lindsey Hall: Thanks so much for listening to this episode of ESG Insider. If you like what you heard today, please subscribe, share and leave us a review wherever you get your podcast.

Esther Whieldon: And a special thanks to our agency partner, The 199. See you next time.

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