Transcript provided by Kensho.

Lindsey Hall: Hi. I'm Lindsey Hall, Head of Thought Leadership at S&P Global Sustainable1. 

Esther Whieldon: And I'm Esther Whieldon, a senior writer on the Sustainable1 Thought Leadership Team.

Lindsey Hall: Welcome to ESG Insider, an S&P Global podcast where Esther and I take you inside the environmental, social and governance issues that are shaping the rapidly evolving sustainability landscape.

Last week, the World Economic Forum held its Annual Meeting in the tiny town of Davos in the Swiss Alps. WEF convened leaders from business, government and academia to discuss solutions to society's biggest challenges. And I got to be there on the ground conducting interviews for the ESG Insider podcast. 

This annual meeting matters because it provides insight into some of the big ideas that will shape the year ahead. Now Davos is not built as a sustainability-focused gathering. But the topics that filled the 2024 agenda are inseparable from the sustainability challenges that the world needs to tackle for society and business to thrive over the long term.

This overlap was loud and clear in WEF's annual Global Risk Report, which it released right before Davos. It found that over the next 2 years, the top risk facing the world is misinformation and disinformation followed by extreme weather events. And then over the next decade, all 4 of the top risks are environmental. Those are extreme weather events, critical change to Earth systems, biodiversity loss plus ecosystem collapse, and natural resource shortages.

Esther Whieldon: Last week, we brought you coverage of one big topic out of Davos — that's artificial intelligence or AI. Today, we're zooming in on another topic that got a lot of attention this year. That topic is nature. If you've been listening to this podcast, you likely know that companies, investors and governments increasingly understand the climate crisis is inextricably linked to the crisis of biodiversity loss. This was a takeaway we heard at Climate Week NYC in September 2023.

It was clear at the UN's recent COP28 Climate Change Conference, and it was evident in the prominent role that Nature had on the 2024 Davos agenda. Long-term strategy for climate, nature and energy was one of the 4 main themes of the week's program.

Lindsey Hall: Well, in today's episode, we'll be hearing from Sarah Chapman, the Global Chief Sustainability Officer of Insurance and Financial Services Company, Manulife. We'll also hear from Erika Thompson; you might know by her social media moniker @TexasBeeWorks. Erika is a beekeeper turned TikTok sensation with around 11.5 million followers on the platform.

And to learn more about nature's role on the WEF agenda, we'll start by going straight to the source. I traipsed through the snow and ice to sit down in a crowded cafeteria on the sidelines of Davos with Akanksha Khatri. Here she is first describing her role.

Akanksha Khatri: My name is Akanksha. I head the nature and biodiversity work at the World Economic Forum. And my mission is to bring nature into economic and business decision-making everywhere. Our research from 2020 actually shows that more than half of the world's GDP is moderately or highly dependent on nature and its services. So nature is not an environmental agenda alone. It's at the core of economics and all the conversations we are and need to have at Davos.

I have definitely seen a huge uplift in terms of interest as well as curiosity from businesses on how they can contribute to nature and unlocking finance for nature. In 2020, we were looking at a world which was pre-pandemic. There's a lot that happened since then. The lockdown, the pandemic helped us shift the way we look at our life and the values that we attach to nature, even in urban settings. The second thing which happened is in December of 2022, 196 parties agreed to the Kunming-Montreal Global Biodiversity Framework, which is the Paris Agreement for nature.

And since then, there is an equal amount of momentum for nature as we saw for climate after the Paris Agreement in 2015.

Lindsey Hall: Can you tell me a little bit more about what WEF is doing on this topic of nature and some of the conversations you're having here at Davos?

Akanksha Khatri: Absolutely. I think the forum is looking at the work in nature in 3 or 4 different buckets. One is really recognizing the value of natural capital. So at Davos this year, we will have a session as well as a couple of discussions on how do we mainstream the value of natural capital. So just the way we look at financial capital, human capital and physical capital like machines and infrastructure, we need to equally give value to natural capital, which is the underlying infrastructure for all our activities.

The second thing we are doing is looking at the targets agreed in the Global Biodiversity Framework and seeing what does it mean for individual industry and individual sector and an individual company because of what has changed since 2020. The economic case of why nature matters has been made. What we are missing today is the business case at the individual unit level, and that's what we are trying to do through the work we are leading on sector transitions to nature positive.

And then the third piece that we are doing is on ecosystem restoration and conservation. There is over 150 sessions in the Davos program this year that covered climate and nature in one way or the other. So whether you are talking about transition materials for net-zero, you have to look at nature and biodiversity.

Or when you are looking at human health as well as resilience, you have to talk about how humans interact with nature and green spaces, et cetera. Businesses definitely are recognizing that they need to include the risks as well as opportunities related to nature into their business and operations model. But businesses cannot do it alone. They ultimately respond to pressures from the government. So we need to make sure that regulatory drivers are quite strong. So the way we have seen it in Europe through the deforestation law or looking at CSRD, we need to have the right regulatory signals. 

The second is pressures from investors. So for corporates like PepsiCo or looking at Walmart, they need to see investors actually demanding change on their boards. And the last piece is consumers, how you and I choose to pay from our wallet, from our interest, from our attention, will shift the way corporates behave as well.

Lindsey Hall: Okay. So regulatory pressure, investor pressure and consumer pressure those 3 pillars. Do you see the regulatory pressure increasing in 2024 in different parts of the world?

Akanksha Khatri: I think so. I feel, again, picking up on the Global Biodiversity Framework, you had 196 countries who signed up to that framework. Now is the time to make it happen. 

So let me just take an example. That framework has a target for conserving and restoring 30% of the marine and land by 2030. Where is that 30% of the land and marine area going to come from? That's what I think countries need to look at. It also has a target related to sustainable production and consumption. Now the regulators have to start looking at what are the mechanisms in which they can give the right signals to companies to look at nature. So another concrete example is the Taskforce [on] Nature-related Financial Disclosures.

So in the framework, there is a target, Target 15, which talks about that countries have to mandate companies to assess and disclose nature-related risks. So the moment you have that signal coming from governments that this is going to be mandatory, companies will move things around and respond to that need. I think companies are very good at responding to the rules of the game.

And now the question is who is determining the rules of the game. It's the governments who set those rules, and we need to make sure those rules are progressive, those rules are looking at nature, and those rules are recognizing the benefits to people and the jobs that need to be created in the new economy.

Lindsey Hall: Now you mentioned some of the investor pressure as well. Do you think investors at this point and companies, for that matter, understand nature in the same way that they've come to understand climate?

Akanksha Khatri: It's really at an early stage, I would not deny that, but it's moving much faster compared to the climate needs. So a few initiatives that come to mind is like the Nature Action 100, financial biodiversity. They are bringing together investors, including asset managers, asset owners, financiers to start looking at nature.

And again, breaking it down, what do I mean by nature. We have to look at trends like deforestation. So which are the asset managers, which are the asset owners who are financing companies that may have a direct or indirect impact on supply chains that are connected to deforestation. 

So I think when you start telling companies that what do we mean by nature, it's more than iconic species, while that is important. It's also about the health of your soil, so making sure there is a food security angle. It's about the health of the water and the air that you and I breath, which is the quality of the life, as well as it is looking at the balance of the ecosystem upon which all the economic and social activities are benefiting. So I do think it's going to move much faster than what we have seen on climate.

Lindsey Hall: We're talking a lot about nature, which is so important. How does that fit into the broader agenda? Is there anything you think our listeners should understand about the broader Davos agenda for 2024?

Akanksha Khatri: I think Davos is a very unique place because it's the World Economic Forum's annual meeting, right? So the environmental agenda does not stand on its own in a silo. It is contextualized with what's going on in the global economy and what's happening in the geopolitical arena as well. When I say the global economy, we are looking at a potentially sluggish growth rate we have to recognize what's the inflation. So the pressures on the company's balance sheets are going to be more and more. And therefore, the case has to be nature is not only a philanthropic activity, it's not a CSR alone, it's not good to have, but it's fundamental to the normal resilience of business activity. So the forum and Davos makes sure that the environmental agenda is anchored in the very center of the economic and geopolitical agenda.

Esther Whieldon: A few notes on what we just heard from Akanksha. She mentioned CSR that stands for Corporate Social Responsibility. She talked a few times about the Global Biodiversity Framework. That was a landmark agreement reached during the UN's 2022 Biodiversity Conference, which was called COP15, and took place in Montreal, Canada.

The UN host these conferences every 2 years, and the next one known as COP16, is scheduled for late 2024 in Colombia. We'll include a link in our show notes to an episode we did on COP15. She also talked about the approach to deforestation in the EU, where regulation on deforestation-free products came into force in 2023. And she mentioned Nature Action 100. That's an investor-led engagement initiative.

You also heard her mentioned Finance for Biodiversity, which is an effort to protect and restore biodiversity through participants' finance activities and investments. Lastly is the CSRD, that's the EU's Corporate Sustainability Reporting Directive, a set of sustainability reporting rules for companies.

Lindsey Hall: Now we see companies increasingly taking steps to assess and disclose their dependencies and impacts on nature and also to identify nature-related risks and opportunities. For example, the Taskforce on Nature-related Financial Disclosures, or TNFD, announced during Davos that 320 companies and financial institutions adopted its recommendations, and they'll start using nature-related corporate reporting.

Now S&P Global Sustainable1 hosted a roundtable at Davos that I moderated. And when I asked participants who here sees nature as an investment opportunity, nearly everyone present raised their hand. But when it comes to actually connecting this money to the opportunities the path forward becomes less clear. We heard at Davos these repeated calls for innovative mechanisms to bridge the huge financing gap for nature. And I heard the topic of biodiversity credits come up a lot.

Esther, we could do a whole episode on this topic alone at some point. But in brief, WEF describes biodiversity credits as a verifiable quantifiable and tradable financial instrument that rewards positive nature and biodiversity outcomes through the creation and sale of land or ocean-based biodiversity units over a fixed period.

And I heard general consensus at Davos that making this controversial market a reality would require things like transparency, credibility, and also engagement with Indigenous Peoples and local communities as partners from the outset. I wanted to understand how companies are showing up to conversations about nature at Davos.

So I found a quiet a hotel lobby down a side street in the midst of the hustle and bustle. And I sat down with an executive from one. You might hear the muzak in the background.

Sarah Chapman: My name is Sarah Chapman, and I am the Global Chief Sustainability Officer as well as the Chief Marketing Officer of the Global Wealth and Asset Management business for Manulife. Manulife is a global life and health insurance company as well as a top 25 asset manager. And we operate across the U.S. under John Hancock. In Canada, Asia and the U.K. as Manulife.

Lindsey Hall: Sarah talked to me about Manulife's big areas of focus at Davos, including longevity, the intersection of climate change in human health and the company's approach to nature.

Sarah Chapman: As we think about health and well-being, we think about economic uncertainty and economic opportunity, and we think about sustainability and biodiversity. At the intersection of all of those is longevity. And so a major theme, obviously, to the World Economic Forum this year is trust. But what we're seeing is sort of again at that intersection of how does sustainability, climate, biodiversity affect our lives as humans, how does human health, well-being and the degradation of economic opportunity, again, longevity, sitting at the center of that. So we're seeing a lot of that sort of intersection of a lot of conversations across Davos.

And as a life and health insurance company, we're working together from an industry collaborative perspective to bring together the models and the data that we're seeing in terms of hotspots for where health is being the most affected by things like climate change. And it manifests itself in very different ways.

If you look at areas of flooding and you look at the intersection of where flooding has impacted and now what we're seeing in terms of mental health crisis is happening in flood zone areas. So there's a lot of research that's coming together from the industry in many sessions this week and that I'm a part of are really at that intersection of climate and health.

And also, from a marketing perspective, I'm also figuring out how do we -- in the agenda of biodiversity in nature, how do we pull in the human element and really start to tell the stories of the people that are most affected by the degradation of biodiversity and nature and tell that story to engage more people and more investors, frankly, in the priority area that it is.

Lindsey Hall: So I was speaking earlier this week with WEF's Head of Nature and biodiversity. And one thing she talked about is the lack of understanding that persists around biodiversity. And I know from my conversations, I think biodiversity and nature are something that a lot of people will be like, yes, I love nature, nature is super important. But then when it comes to actually connecting it to how it impacts the business or how it impacts human health. Like that seems like a challenge.

Sarah Chapman: Yes, it's an incredible challenge for, frankly, society as we think about. It's hard for us to even grasp the complexity and the scale of nature and biodiversity. One of the toughest challenges we have right now is that it's very hard to measure. Different than climate where there is a fairly robust accounting protocol, and we know how to measure emissions, biodiversity in nature, while tangible, is so much more complex.

So without the right mechanism to quantify, it's very difficult for organizations and people to really understand all the different complexity that sits underneath it. Now that's not a reason not to address the issue, and we see it manifesting itself in different ways. So if you look at water and the issues that we've had globally and both from a barrier reef perspective, underwater, but also clean water perspective, just one element of biodiversity in nature that's becoming critical, frankly, and again, at the intersection of human health, which is really what we're most interested in because we see that, that's how it manifests itself for people.

When I think about biodiversity in nature, just like when I think about climate, I look at it on a spectrum of both where are we mitigating risk and where is there actually a huge opportunity for value creation. And I would say the same about nature. There's an enormous amount of value that comes from even again, from a human health perspective that we talk a lot about forest bathing and those type of things.

The positives that come from when we spend time in nature, how do we really understand and quantify that and yet what are the risks against the real degradation of that biodiversity in nature. So thinking about it on the spectrum, where are the areas that we can really sort of lean into the value and the opportunity but also mitigate risk.

Lindsey Hall: That term, she just said forest bathing. This is a new one for me. So I asked Sarah to define it.

Sarah Chapman: So it's something that seems to be popping up and it really is about spending time, essentially spending time in nature. So it's a bit of a term that's been coined in specific areas. I know in the West Coast of Canada is certainly something that people are doing. But essentially, it's about spending time in nature.

Lindsey Hall: Okay. I haven't heard that one before.

Sarah Chapman: Forest bathing. Yes.

Lindsey Hall: And so as an insurance company, what data sets are you looking at? How are you approaching this and kind of getting your arms around this topic?

Sarah Chapman: So there's 2 different elements that we will look at it. One, as the largest institutional manager of timberland in the world and the second largest institutional manager of agriculture, we are tangibly and very heavily involved in measuring nature on a bunch of different fronts from a biodiversity species perspective in those asset classes from an owned and operated perspective for timberland and agriculture, much more tangible for us, ewe are on the ground heavily engaged there. 

At the same time, as a global organization, we need to understand the broader impact of our operations, of our offices, and our buildings, and our travel, and the impact on biodiversity. The former being more tangible and specific for us to dive into as we are managing forests and really thinking about the biodiversity and the importance of the species there, much more challenging on the operational front.

We've engaged with a number of consultants over this past year to try and help quantify how do we measure nature at the operational level for an organization of our size and the granularity of the data is just not there yet. Again, not an excuse not to make progress. But for us, it's about how do we work now together with broader industry to come together to align on what are the standard ways we're going to measure this in the same way that has happened with climate because for us, right now, it's very, very challenging on the operational side to really get a grasp of the impact on biodiversity. 

So Manulife Investment Management is the largest institutional manager of timberland in the world. We manage about 5.4 million acres of timberland and the second largest institutional manager of agriculture in the world. So about 400,000 acres of agriculture, in many cases, owning and operating that land. So we manage forests on behalf of third-party clients. And of course, on the insurance side of our business, our general account, about $450 billion is a significant ambassador in those timberland and agriculture assets.

Lindsey Hall: Okay. Well. And are these U.S. or Canadian dollars, just to clarify.

Sarah Chapman: They are Canadian dollars.

Lindsey Hall: That's helpful context to understand why nature and biodiversity is such a big topic for you right now. And certainly, I'm hearing that nature and biodiversity are playing a more prominent role on the Davos agenda than it has in years past. Is that your observation as well?

Sarah Chapman: It certainly is. And if I think about the way that Climate sort of took a number of years to really sort of grasp attention, grab hold, people to understand it and then has accelerated, obviously, since then. If you look at things like the TCFD, the Task Force on Climate-Related Financial Disclosures, we have the frameworks and the understanding now on how to embed this in an organization strategy and the way that we think about our operations, I think nature is going to follow that path and ride on the coattails of how we figured that out for climate, but there's still the complexity of nature is so much more significant than climate.

So that's the biggest barrier we have. But we certainly have the frameworks like TCFD that again, we see TNFD, the Task Force core on Nature-Related Financial Disclosures coming right on the coattails. So I think it's going to move fast, but there are some big open questions that are going to require an enormous amount of industry collaboration to figure out.

Lindsey Hall: Now Esther, there are a lot of big names running around Davos and ice and the snow. And so I asked her, if there's anyone, she's in particular hoping to meet during the week. Here's her reply.

Sarah Chapman: So I'm so excited to be speaking alongside Jane Goodall. And as we think about her agenda and what she's been focused on for so many years, 30-plus years now for her to be mainstage truly is a fascinating evolution, and I think a real signal for where we're at as a society in terms of what we're focused on.

Lindsey Hall: Jane Goodall! She is, of course, a primatologist and anthropologists famous for her work observing chimpanzees in the wild, and she is the founder of the Jane Goodall Institute. That's a nonprofit focused on wildlife and environment conservation. And if I can just fan girl a second asked her, I also got to be in the room to hear Dr. Jane Goodall speak during a panel, and this was the highlight of my trip.

My daughter has a matching game where the cards each display pictures of inspiring women role models and Jane Goodall is one of the leaders featured. So being in a room with her, hearing her speak about why she has hoped for the future and how humanity can overcome its division, really brought me to tears. And I'm not alone in this either.

Several women I spoke to at Davos have been hugely inspired by Jane Goodall in their lives, including our last guest today, Erika Thompson. As you heard me mention at the beginning of today's episode, Erika is a beekeeper turned TikTok sensation with around 11.5 million followers. She was at Davos, sharing her message about the important role that bees play in biodiversity, pollination and food systems. Here's our interview.

Erika Thompson: My name is Erika Thompson. I am a full-time professional beekeeper and an expert in bee behavior. And I also now through TikTok, have the wonderful opportunity to share the work of bees and beekeepers with the world. So I do a lot of advocacy work on behalf of bees and get to have great conversations like the one we're going to have today about the important work that bees and beekeepers do every day.

Lindsey Hall: Can you just tell me a little bit more about your background? How did you get into this role of beekeeping and bee behavior and bee advocacy?

Erika Thompson: Absolutely. So as a kid, I just always loved bugs. I came out of the box a bug lover. And I spent a lot of time in my backyard collecting insects, trying to keep them as pets, trying to study and observe them -- and this lifelong love of bugs led me to take a beekeeping class over 10 years ago, and I took that class with no intention of becoming a beekeeper. I just wanted to learn more about bees. I had heard that these were in trouble. We needed to save the bees, but I didn't really know what that meant. 

So I took this class, and I walked away fascinated with honeybees. So I started one hive in my backyard. And as my passion and obsession grew, so did my hive count, and I just wanted to do more bee work, as I lovingly call it. So I started my own beekeeping business when I was still working a full-time fast paced office job as a communications director. 

And I started my business, Texas Be Works, really just wanting to do as much with honeybees as I could, so I could learn more. And naturally, people started to ask me for beekeeping related services. They would say, can you keep bees on my property?

Or can you teach classes about these? Or can you do a live bee removal. So many times, bees will build hives in places that humans don't necessarily want them to live, and they'll call a beekeeper to come and remove those hives. And once I started to do that, I figured out that, that's what I wanted to do all day, every day if I could.

So now I am so lucky to be able to share the work of bees and beekeepers with the world. And I'm probably most well-known for my live bee removal process, which I show on platforms like TikTok.

Lindsey Hall: Okay. Great. So you said save the bees and bee advocacy for our listeners who might not be familiar with the plate of bees, why is that something that needs to happen?

Erika Thompson: Bees are the most crucial creature on our planet in my opinion. They are responsible for pollinating many of the crops that we rely on. They also contribute a lot to the biodiversity of our planet and many other animals rely on them for food as well. Our global agriculture system would collapse if it wasn't for bees. So it's necessary that we understand a lot of the challenges that bees are facing. And most notably, some of those challenges are the effects of climate change, loss of habitat and the use of pesticides.

Lindsey Hall: Can you talk to our audience about what brings you to the World Economic Forum's Davos gathering?

Erika Thompson: I was so honored and humbled to be invited by TikTok as a creator on the platform, it's completely changed my life. I am able to show people the remarkable things that I see every day as a beekeeper when I go into these hives and do these live bee removals. And through TikTok, I'm able to educate millions and millions of people about the important work that bees do.

I think it's essential that when we have the conversations about biodiversity, that we're also talking about bees. And I think most people, when they think about bees, they might think about honey or about getting stung, but people don't really understand the work that bees really do and the service that they offer to our planet.

And when bees go out into the world every day to do the work of bees when they're visiting flowers, they're offering an invaluable service to the planet by the way of pollination and over 80% of the flowering plants on earth are reliant on bees. So without bees, our world would look entirely different.

Lindsey Hall: From your perspective, is this a topic that companies understand? Is this something that you're seeing them respond to? Or is there more education still needed?

Erika Thompson: From my perspective, it is not really a topic that people understand, or people don't understand just how crucial bees are to our environment, to our world to biodiversity to our global agriculture system. So I'm incredibly thankful to be here and hopefully start those conversations with people from those companies and all the big change makers and policy makers in the world are here. So I hope to kind of put bees on the map and be the voice of bees and beekeepers if I could.

Lindsey Hall: Okay. Great. You also mentioned climate change and the impact on bees. Is that something that you've seen firsthand in Texas? And if so, can you tell our listeners a little bit about that?

Erika Thompson: Absolutely. I've seen the effects of climate change in the way it affects my own bees and my own beehives. What happens with climate change is we can have this mismatch of seasonal timing. So the bee colony produces a certain amount of bees that amount of bees changes throughout different points of the year.

For example, in the winter, the colony isn't producing as many bees because they simply don't need that many bees when not as many plants are in bloom. Well, with climate change, we're seeing plants bloom at odd times of the year and the bees just aren't ready. They don't have the population in their hives to be able to go out and collect food for themselves and thereby pollinate plants when they can't predict the weather and when there's so much change happening. So really, it's the effects, it's climate change, but it's also the decisions we are making as people for the planet that are really impacting bees and bee behavior.

Lindsey Hall: Is there anything else that we haven't touched on, you think is important for our listeners to understand as they wrap their heads around bees and what role they play in climate change and nature and the food that we rely on?

Erika Thompson: Well, for everybody listening, if you're not here at Davos, if you're just listening and you have space in your yard or on your balcony or your garden that you can dedicate to bees. One of the most important things you can do for bees is to provide more food for bees, and that's something simple that everybody can do by planting more flowering plants. Native plants are always best. So plants that are native to your area.

There are over 20,000 species of bees. That's more species of bees than there are birds and mammals combined. And a lot of these bees are solitary bees, and they have a symbiotic relationship with native plants. So native plants are very important. So if you're listening to this conversation and you're interested in bees and want to do something for bees, plant flowers, bushes and trees for bees and you can really have a big impact.

Lindsey Hall: Thank you for ending on this call to action, and thank you for sitting down with me, Erika.

Erika Thompson: Thank you, Lindsey. It's been a pleasure.

Esther Whieldon: Lindsey, that's really cool that you got to see Jane Goodall speak. I'm a huge fan of her as well. And also, actually I watch Erika on TikTok and Instagram and all her other platforms all the time. I love watching how she scoops bees bare handed and do her make shift hives and how she rescues the bees from all kinds of structures like outdoor umbrellas, and I appreciated how she talked about the importance of encouraging a symbiotic relationship of nature. I grow a number of native plants in my yard, and I really enjoy in the summer, seeing the bees buzzing around and feeding off all the flowers.

Lindsey Hall: I thought you might like that call-to-action Esther. It's even inspired me to dig out that gardening gear my husband gave you from my last birthday. And finally, plant those seeds you sent me.

Esther Whieldon: Well, if you need any more, let me know, I've got so many seeds to share.

Lindsey Hall: Okay. Definitely, I will. So as we heard today, nature was a large and growing focus at Davos. We heard Akanksha say that the economic case for nature has been made. She said, this is not a topic companies can put to the side or treat in a silo. It's inseparable from conversations about things like net-zero, energy transition strategies, about human health, about resilience and more, and businesses are recognizing that they need to include nature related risks and opportunities in our strategies.

We heard from Sarah, how one company is approaching this topic. And we heard today that many different stakeholders have a role to play, from regulators to investors to consumers. And as we just heard from Erika, there's a role for individuals at home as well.

Esther Whieldon: And we'll continue to cover nature in future episodes. So please stay tuned.

Lindsey Hall: Thanks so much for listening to this episode of ESG Insider. If you like what you heard today, please subscribe, share and leave us or review wherever you get your podcast. 

Esther Whieldon: And a special thanks to our agency partner, The 199. See you next time.

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