Transcript provided by Kensho.

Lindsey Hall: I'm Lindsey Hall, Head of thought leadership at S&P Global Sustainable1.   

Esther Whieldon: And I'm Esther Whieldon, a senior writer on the Sustainable1 Thought Leadership Team   

Lindsey Hall: Welcome to ESG Insider, a podcast hosted by S&P Global, where we explore environmental, social and governance issues that are shaping investor activity and company strategy. 

We cover a lot of different topics on this podcast. We talked to a lot of different stakeholders. There's one topic that flows through all of these conversations, whether we're talking about environmental challenges, social equity, nature or climate change. 

And this topic is also a through line for every single stakeholder we talk to on the podcast, from the private sector to the public sector, from financial institutions to individual consumers, because it is vital for every single person on earth. I'm talking of course about water. 

Water is an essential topic in the sustainability world. And as we'll be covering in today's episode, there's also going to be a big focus on water during COP28. You might even say a torrent of events will be on the topic of water. And today's episode is just a drop in the ocean.

Esther Whieldon: All right, Lindsey, that's 3 water puns in 30 seconds. I'm going to have to cut you off there.

Lindsey Hall: Don't rain on my parade, Esther. I'm just trying to go with the flow.

Esther Whieldon: Oh Lindsey, all right now you've sunk to new depths. 

Well, if you've been listening to recent episodes of this podcast, you that COP28 kicked off November 30. COP stands for the conference of parties, and this is a big UN Climate Change Conference that takes place in a different location each year. This year, the United Arab Emirates, or UAE, holds the COP presidency and is hosting the event in Dubai. 

The 2-week conference will include several thematic days. Last week, for example, we did an episode talking about the thematic focus on gender equality at COP28. The COP28 presidency said it will elevate water on the climate agenda and lists three priority areas of focus. One, conserving and restoring freshwater ecosystems; two, enhancing urban water resilience; and three, bolstering water-resilient food systems. 

COP28' two-week thematic program includes a special day dedicated to climate action across food, agriculture and water, that's on December 10. And -- and on that day, the UAE and Brazil will also co-host the first-ever UNFCCC high-level dialogue on building water resilient food systems. The goal of that dialogue is to bring together stakeholders from the public and private sectors to assess water and food resilience. 

Quick aside here, the UNFCCC stands for the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change. And its ultimate goal is to prevent dangerous human interference with the climate system. Nearly 200 countries have ratified the convention, and these are called the parties to the convention.

Lindsey Hall: So water will be a big focus during COP28. And that's true for the private sector as well as the public. In today's episode, we'll be focusing on the question of how the private sector is approaching water risks and opportunities around the world, and how it can use partnerships to drive progress. 

We'll hear from Justina Nixon-Saintil, who is Vice President and Chief Impact Officer at Global Technology Company, IBM, where she leads global corporate social responsibility. We'll also talk to Emilio Tenuta. Emilio is Chief Sustainability Officer at Ecolab, a company that offers water, hygiene and infection prevention technologies and solutions. And we'll hear from a professor in the UAE, who focuses on water conditions in the Middle East. 

First up, here's Justina from IBM. The company has been doing work on projects focused on water management solutions as part of its global social impact program. So I ask Justina what IBM is doing to address the global crisis of water and climate. You'll hear her mention RFP and that's a request for proposal.

Justina Nixon-Saintil: We know that climate change is increasing run-up of sediments. We know that its decreasing water availability due to drought. We know that, for example, we're starting to see an increase in unexpected downpours. 

So when we look at what's happening, especially with very vulnerable communities, those in urban areas that are experiencing those unexpected downpours are those in rural areas or other areas that don't have access to clean running water, we felt that our own technology and our expertise and our data can really make an impact in how we can support those communities. 

So we launched early this year and RFP asking organizations to apply to be a part of our IBM Sustainability Accelerator. It's a program that was launched in 2022 and it's completely pro bono. So it's a social impact program that takes advantage of IBM technologies such as hybrid cloud and AI and an ecosystem of experts that we have across the company. And we work together with nonprofit and government organizations to really help them enhance and scale products and solutions that they have, but with a focus on how we support the most vulnerable communities across the world. And these are the communities that are most threatened by climate change by extreme water and pollution. 

So we already have 2 active cohorts, one focused on sustainable agriculture. The second cohort is focused on clean energy. And this water management cohort is the one that we are focused on now.

Lindsey Hall: I asked her why the focus on water now?

Justina Nixon-Saintil: The focus on water was really around what we're hearing our clients saying that is a challenge for them, what we are hearing when we work with and talk to nonprofits. We don't make decisions across any of these cohorts unless we actually work with partners that are closer to the communities that have been impacted. And they're coming to tell us, "Hey, this is something that we need to focus on. This is something where we need access to resources, mentorship experts, technology to really make a difference because these communities are suffering." 

Even if you just think about what happened — and I'm from New York, although I lived in New Jersey for 25 years. But even if you think about what just happened in Brooklyn in New York and in the city in general, just a few weeks ago, where there was a heavy downpours and it caused flooding. This is impacting so many people. And in many instances, it's impact in those populations who are marginalized who don't have access to the resources. 

So water was one of the focus areas where we felt that we can actually have an impact, and we were getting that input from our partners, from our communities, from our clients that say this is an area that we needed to focus on.

Lindsey Hall: Okay. And I think what I'm hearing from you is that when we talk about water management, we're actually talking about a whole host of different issues from, as you mentioned, downpour on the one hand, to scarcity of fresh water or drinking water on the other.

Justina Nixon-Saintil: Yes. So there are a few areas that we are diving into. So for example, equitable access to safe drinking water for all, that is a huge focus of ours. How do we improve hygiene and water quality by reducing pollution?oHw do we increase water efficiency? And then how do we -- overall, right, the outcome that we want is how do we reduce the number of people suffering from water scarcity. Again, those people that are in the most vulnerable communities. 

And when we looked at what IBM can offer, we have access to data. We have access to expertise. We actually bring our nonprofit partners and our government partners to work with us in what we call our IBM garage and it's the same methodology that we use with our clients. And we have a very user-centered approach in the garage where we really look at what are the needs of the people that we want to impact and how can we leverage IBM solutions and expertise to help support solutions and iterate on the solutions that we can launch in communities and really track what's the impact that we're having. 

And we are very open to continue to iterate on those solutions because we know sometimes they're not perfect. We want to make sure that we are driving impact in those communities and we continue to work with those organizations over the course of 2 years.

Lindsey Hall: I wanted to know more about some of the concrete solutions being proposed and what those look like. So I ask Justina to describe the projects IBM has chosen for its sustainability accelerator water cohort.

Justina Nixon-Saintil: We're a global company, of course, and this challenge is felt everywhere. So we wanted to make sure that we were working with organizations across many different countries and geos. So just to give you an example of some of the projects. 

One that is very exciting to me is the partnership with the University of Illinois. And this hits close to home, of course, in the U.S. And what we're going to partner with the University of Illinois to do is to develop an AI geospatial foundation model, and that is going to leverage, of course, our Watsonx products and solutions. And this model is going to help predict rainfall and flood forecasting in the Appalachian Mountains. 

And this is important because, as we all know, the Appalachian mountains where you have very underserved populations. They struggle to make a live in their struggle to make sure they have access to all of the right resources. To be able to help them by understanding when floods are come in, when heavy rainfalls are come in, that will help them with the agriculture, the live in, everything that they have to do as a community there. 

Another really great partnership is with the University of Sharjah and that university is actually located in the Middle East. And what we're going to work with them to do is to build a model and an application that is going to monitor and forecast water access conditions in the Middle East and North Africa. And that's going to support communities that are suffering from drought that are in the most arid regions of the area where they have very limited freshwater resources. So that will give them an opportunity to figure out where the right areas where those communities can get access to freshwater. 

We have a couple of others that are very focused on, again, providing access to water quality. We're partnering with the University of Chicago Trust in Delhi, and that is about aggregating water quality information in India and building tools to provide access to water quality information and to help improve water resource management. 

So this is something where we're going to be working very closely with key government and nonprofit organizations to implement these tools that will provide access to the information around water quality in India. 

We have the Instituto Igarapé in Brazil, and we are going to focus on sanitation infrastructure planning. So it's really around helping the local utility providers and governments plan the right infrastructure for sanitation in the country. And then finally, we're working with the Water Corporation where in Western Australia, where we're going to provide again access to water quality testing for the aboriginal communities. 

So again, you will see across all of these organizations. These are organizations that can work very closely with us, take advantage of the technology and the resources and the expertise that we provide, but really focus on how we support these very vulnerable communities in each of these countries.

Lindsey Hall: We heard Justina talk about IBM's approach to partnerships. And this is something that we expect to hear about a lot at COP28, where there's going to be a huge private sector present, including from companies like S&P Global and IBM. And as just Cenit to tell me more about how our company approaches collaboration across public and private sectors.

Justina Nixon-Saintil: When you look at the challenges that we have, climate change, environmental threats, sustainability overall, this s a huge challenge that no individual or company or government can solve alone. 

So it's extremely important for all of these entities to work together because although you have nonprofit organizations that are closest to the communities and understand the needs of the communities, they may not necessarily have access to the skills, the expertise, the technology and resources to drive impact in those communities. And that's where those partnerships are most important to have. Because, again, you can't have one entity trying to solve these big challenges alone. It's important to bring all of these different organizations together and problem solve and listen to one another and figure out where we have some strengths where we have some opportunities and create the solutions that could really make a difference. 

And I think what's going to be important is, how do you scale these solutions? How do you bring awareness to them? And how do you scale them? And I can tell you, when I went to COP last year, it was my first time attending COP, it was interesting to see that there was a move away from just talking about the issues and challenges and starting to focus on what are some of the solutions that could be implemented to solve these challenges. I think what I'm interested to see this year is how far have we gone, right? How much improvement have we made -- how much have really great solutions being scaled? Where do we see the most opportunity around partnerships and what else needs to be done?

Lindsey Hall: The importance of public-private partnerships was also a big part of my conversation with our next guest, Emilio Tenuta, Chief Sustainability Officer at Ecolab. I started by asking him what do you expect from COP28's water agenda, and you hear him mentioned Climate Week -- that refers to the week of events in September in New York City, and I'll include a link in our Sonos to our podcast episodes from Climate Week NYC, if you'd like to learn more. 

You'll also hear Emilio mention Sharm El-Sheikh. That's the city in Egypt where COP27 took place in 2022. Lastly, he talks about the Water Resilience Coalition. That's a CEO-led initiative that aims to address the global water crisis. The group has a 2030 ambition of achieving positive water impact in more than 100 water-stressed basins that support more than 3 billion people. It also has a goal of enabling equitable and resilient water access, sanitation and hygiene for over 300 million people by that deadline. Okay. Here's Emilio.

Emilio Tenuta: No one can do this alone. And I think the private sector, government, NGOs need to work together to really address this climate, water and nature prices that we're experiencing. And so I think going into COP28, I will just start with, I was really pleased to see that, at Climate Week, we saw a significant focus on the role that water plays around climate change, which is growing, which is really exciting to see. 

Because for a number of years like we've got to these climate summits, we've not seen water really have a prominent spot on stage to really focus on the role that it plays to mitigate the effects of climate change. And so again, we'll experience the effects of climate change through water through the droughts and floods and extreme weather events. As we go into COP28, we see the growth in the emphasis of water and nature as part of the solution to getting to net zero. 

I often say you can't achieve net zero without a focus on water and nature. And so I think this year, and it builds on the water pavilion and the blue zone at Sharm El-Sheikh in Egypt last year for COP27 that things like regenerative agriculture and modernizing irrigation practices and improving the environmental flows in water-stressed regions where we see droughts and extreme temperatures impacting communities and businesses. That at COP28, water climate in nature will be more of a theme that various sessions, including the water pavilion will be something that people will be talking about. And the question now is what are the actions that we need to take? And we're going to meet public private partnerships to get that done.

Lindsey Hall: Okay. So a couple of follow-up questions there. First, you mentioned the water pavilion at COP27 last year and then the forthcoming COP28. For listeners you might not know or might not have been to a COP what is the pavilion, what happens there?

Emilio Tenuta: Well, in many ways, the water pavilion is organizations that are from the UN, like the UN Water Resilience Coalition, which is a CEO-led coalition that enable us to focus on what they call the open call for water action. 

We had the UN Water Conference in March of 2023. So that was a pivotal moment because we hadn't had a water conference in nearly 50 years that was driven by the UN. And so this is a huge moment for bringing water to the forefront when it comes to the focus UN has along with climate change. 

And so in the water pavilion, and this goes back to Egypt and COP27, the water pavilion was very much focused on the open call to action, which is we need to focus on 100 priority basins around the world that impact 3 billion people living in water stressed conditions. And the public-private partnerships that we need to really drive the action we need to see on not only the effects of the water crisis when it comes to quantity, quality and access, but also the impact that has around mitigating it and adapting to the climate change that is accelerating in those areas that leads to those water stress conditions. 

So to us, the water pavilion is really bring together those public-private partnerships that we need to really drive action really on all 3 of those areas: water, climate and nature. 

So let me use an example. In California, just a few weeks ago, we met together with nearly 60 attendees to focus on ... driving California's selective action around the water stress issues as we all know, California is a water-stressed area, the #1 economy in the U.S., #5 globally. And it was really cannibalized by the Water Resilience Coalition, which is, again, a CEO-led coalition that started in 2020 and has grown to date to be 37 member companies with a market cap of over $4.5 trillion. 

And so the California collective action work that we embarked on a few weeks ago is really a kickoff, and we had a multi-stakeholder group that involves NGOs, the public sector. We had the Water Control Board in Sacramento that was attending the meeting. We had a number of private sector organizations that were across the value chain. So we had a really diverse set of stakeholders that were available to us to really talk about this, the role that the public and private sector needs to play. And I heard kind of a strong theme that the private sector needs to lead here, which is what we were doing, but it needs to also be enabled by policy. 

And so the public sector plays a key role in enabling the policies that we need to drive things like more recycle and reclaim opportunities to use gray water, for instance, in lieu of freshwater in places that are water stressed, for industry. It is opportunities to really focus on incentivizing the use of smart technology, digital technology that provides the insights we need to really be a lot smarter about water management within an operation. 

It's more about the enabling of agricultural practices to modernize irrigation practices for instance to support how we need to get after that and be able to deliver the crop yields we need with less water. So those are some of the things that I've been hearing, Lindsey, in terms of the role that the public and the private sector needs to play as they work together. 

So the work that we're seeing is really focused on those 100 priority basins, which have been mapped out. It is arid regions where this issue is very acute when it comes to quantity, quality and access. 

The second part is that we're at a point right now where we've really begun to collaborate in 18 of those 100 basins in a really big way. I just mentioned California and the work we're doing there. Another one is we're kicking off next week, a Mississippi River Basin project that really is hugely significant in terms of the economic impact it has to this country when you think of the world the Mississippi River has in terms of commerce, but also the impact it has to communicate from the north in Minnesota down to the Gulf region where it actually discharges at the foot of the river. 

We also have areas like South Africa. We have places like Sao Paulo, Brazil. As you know, there, that's another critical base a mega city that has been dealing with challenges around water scarcity and water stress. We also have places like Mexico Citym which has been dealing with challenges, Monterrey, Mexico. So yes, this is really focused on how we can bring public and private partnerships together to really drive more collective action that not only addresses the water crisis, but also has a strong link to the biodiversity loss and climate change as well.

Lindsey Hall: Emilio just gave several examples of how different parts of the world are approaching the topic of water. He mentioned the UN 2023 Water Conference held in March. That was cohosted by the Netherlands and Tajikistan and it resulted in the Water Action Agenda. Building on that momentum, the COP 28 presidency announced a partnership with the Netherlands and Tajikistan. And these countries will serve as COP28 water champions to help lead the water agenda. 

Next up, we're going to hear from a stakeholder in the country hosting COP28 about how it's approaching water challenges and opportunities. Dr. Adewale Giwa is Assistant Professor in the Chemical and Water Desalination Engineering Program at the University of Sharjah in the UAE. He is also principal investigator in the project that we heard Justina mentioned earlier in the episode. The university is collaborating with IBM to build a model and application to monitor and forecast water security conditions in the Middle East and North Africa. Okay. Here's Dr. Giwa. First, talking about the water challenges the region faces.

Dr. Adewale Giwa: The Middle East and North Africa faces unique challenges due to its arid and semi-arid climates. The United Emirates is around 178 or 182 countries in the world by the World Bank in the list of the average annual rainfall by country. A country is said to be water stressed if the country's annual freshwater supply is less than 1,700 cubic meters per capita. And a country is said to experience water scarcity when the country's annual freshwater supply is less than 1,000 cubic meters per capita. The UAE is among the countries pursuing the greatest threats to water security in the old world. According to the World Bank, the renewable internal freshwater available in the country is only about 17 cubic meters per capita. This is far less than the threshold of 1,000 cubic meters per capita for water security. 

So this means that water scarcity is a pressing issue in the UAE. And over the years, it has been worsened by high population growth, increased urbanization, and high demand for water, most especially in the agricultural and industrial sectors. So the UAE's water consumption is among the highest in the world, approximately 500 liters per day, which is 50% above the global average. 

So apart from the fact that the UAE has an arid climate, UAE is also perceiving problems associated with high water consumption. It has an estimated that if the current consumption patterns and rates continue, the UAE's total water demand is going to double by the 2020, and that is around 7 years from now. 

So the UAE relies mostly now on potable water coming from some 70 major desalination plants. So the preparation for COP28, as we mentioned, Lindsey, on the calls the urgency to address these water security issues. The focus is on developing strategies that mitigate the freshwater availability issues in the country, that promotes sustainable water use and aligns with global sustainability goals. 

Locally, the country has invested a lot of money in advanced technologies for water production, such as desalination and water recycling. The government is actively promoting water conservation measures, encouraging the use of treated wastewater and integrating sustainable water management practices into urban planning. The UAE is also engaged in international collaborations. One of the reasons why the country is hosting COP this year, the UAE is sharing knowledge and experiences to contribute to global efforts in addressing water challenges. This strategy is aligned with the country's commitment to achieving sustainable development goals on ensuring a resilient and sustainable future. So the UAE Water Security Strategy 2036 is a very popular strategy in this country. And this strategy aims to ensure sustainable access water during both normal and emergency conditions. The overall objectives of this strategy are to reduce the total demand for water resources by 21%, to increase the water productivity index to USD $210 per cubic meter to reduce water scarcity index by 3 degrees to increase the reuse of treated waste water to 95%. 

So all of these goals and strategies sound good, they are impactful. The only thing that I would like to have to all of this is that all of these are going on, s the international collaboration that exists between the country, the UAE, other nations of the world, we also play a very major role in the achievement of these objectives.

Lindsey Hall: I asked Adewale about the role of partnerships like the one that his university has with IBM. Here is again.

Dr. Adewale Giwa: IBM's collaboration with the University of Sharjah is tied to addressing water insecurity. And the partnership that we are having with IBM involves the application of IBM's expertise, data analytics and artificial intelligence and cloud computing to enhance our monetary and forecasting capabilities. 

So this collaboration can lead to the development of a robust and scalable technological solution that not only addresses the water challenges in the UAE and the Middle East and North Africa region, but can also be adopted for use globally. So the synergy between academia, between the University of Sharjah and the industry, in this case, IBM, and this collaboration is very key to driving innovation and creating real-world impact. So to put this in perspective, public private partnerships have immense potential to address water security challenges.

Lindsey Hall: So we've heard some concrete examples today of how companies are seeking solutions to water challenges, sometimes through partnerships. But how much are company is actually paying attention to the topic of water? I put this question to Emilio from Ecolab.

Emilio Tenuta: Well, I'd love to say that it's top of mind, but you and I know that's not the reality. I think what we're seeing is that there's been such a huge focus on climate and rightfully so that, in some ways, businesses have not seen the interconnectedness it has to nature and the focus that water plays also mitigated the effects of climate change. 

So for example, one of the stats that I often talk about is that when you look at manufacturing at large, depending on the type of manufacturing, you could see as much as 75% of the energy used in a manufacturer is connected to the water systems because you have to heat, produce steam, you have to chill, you have to cool, you have to move water around. And so we often find that water is forgotten and not part of the climate strategy that a manufacturer will take. 

And so I think the same goes for nature. Nature is kind of the new kid in town, if you will. It's not something that we've been focused on because climate has really gotten the headline. Now one of the things I think is very interesting, Lindsey, is that when you look at stakeholders, one of the things that we're seeing influencing the private sector is not only are NGOs is usually focused on these 3 interconnected areas, but also investors are starting to really hone in on this as well.

Lindsey Hall: Emilio also talked about one group that he said is often overlooked in conversations about water: the consumer.

Emilio Tenuta: We released it during Climate Week, a really interesting study Ecolab did on global consumer research that examined the state of water stewardship through water and the importance of water usage and the connection that it has to climate and really the responsibility among key consumer populations around the world. 

And so we call it the Ecolab Watermark Study. It includes data from 15 individual countries, but thousands of consumer interviews. And here's what we heard we uncovered 3 really key points. One is access to clean and safe water is a paramount concern for consumers in every region. So Latin America, I think, the highest percentage of consumers who are concerned in Latin America, it was 92%. In China, it was 85%. Even in the U.S., it was 81%. 

The second key point was that consumers often hold government and businesses most responsible for driving water conservation. And then the third, which is very interesting, but something we've heard before, which is consumers believe that industry has been setting bold ambitious goals, but they don't necessarily see the plan on how they're going to get there or the action that needs to be taken to get there. 

And that's interesting because here's another catalyst for businesses to start thinking about the interconnection between water climate in nature, which is that there's buying motives here that are changing and that there's an opportunity for the private sector to really develop products and technologies that address the benefits that consumers are looking for. In this case, how does this impact clean water, which is something that is very immediate for them. I often talk about climate as being kind a slow drip. We don't necessarily feal the effects of it as urgently as we do when clean water is at risk. So those are some of the things that I think are important to consider for businesses as they start thinking about raising the profile of water and nature to address climate change.

Lindsey Hall: Emilio says he sees growing momentum behind water and also further room for development.

Emilio Tenuta: I think 2023 was a really, really pivotal year that really brought water up to the more prominent role than it has on the climate stage, which it hasn't been prior to 2023. And I think the UN water conference in March of 2023 was absolutely a watershed moment for water. So I would absolutely say that it is better, but it's still not where we need to be. I think water is still sometimes forgotten as a critical strategy to address industry's challenges when it comes to addressing the action we need on the climate crisis.

Lindsey Hall: I heard a similar sentiment from IBM's Justina. She said there's some progress, but also room for more action heading into COP28.

Justina Nixon-Saintil: For people who have been in the sustainability space for quite some time, you know 20-30 years, there is a feeling that not enough progress has been made. And I felt that in the dinners, the small room conversations, maybe not as much in the big conferences on the panels because the focus there really was around what are the solutions, how can we scale them, how can we make an impact. But I think in some of the other smaller convenings, there is a bit of "Isn't there more that can be done?" and "Not enough progress has been made." So it will be interesting to see how this moves into COP. 

Esther Whieldon: So I'm hearing a mixture of optimism and pessimism heading into COP28. Water is top of mind for many stakeholders, and it sounds like we could expect a lot of conversations between the public and private sectors. We'll also be listening for more examples of how technology can help address sustainability challenges.

Lindsey Hall: And I'll be on the ground in Dubai conducting more interviews in the coming episodes, and I'll report back, Esther, on what I hear about how water plays out in discussions at COP28. Also Esther, I'll have so many good water puns for you.

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of ESG Insider and a special thanks to our producer, Kyle Cangialosi. Please be sure to subscribe to our podcast and sign up for our weekly newsletter, ESG Insider. See you next time.   

This piece was published by S&P Global Sustainable1, a part of S&P Global.     

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