Transcript provided by Kensho.

Lindsey Hall: Hi. I'm Lindsey Hall, Head of Thought Leadership at S&P Global Sustainable1.

Esther Whieldon: And I'm Esther Whieldon, a Senior Writer on the Sustainable1 Thought Leadership team.

Lindsey Hall: Welcome to ESG Insider, an S&P Global podcast, where Esther and I take you inside the environmental, social and governance issues that are shaping the rapidly evolving sustainability landscape.

Esther Whieldon: Today, we're bringing you the latest installment of our series on plastic. We launched this series ahead of negotiations starting April 23 in Ottawa, Canada. More than 170 countries will gather to negotiate a legally binding instrument on plastic pollution with a view to agreeing on a global treaty by the end of 2024.

Lindsey Hall: In the first episode in this series, we heard about the health and environmental impacts of plastic. In the second episode, we heard about key issues being debated in the treaty talks. In both episodes, we heard that plastic production is poised to grow dramatically. And that leaves us with a question, how do you reduce pollution and waste when global demand for plastic is massive and accelerating? In today's episode, we'll explore how some companies are addressing these challenges.

Esther Whieldon: First up today, we'll hear from one of the largest plastic production companies in the world, Dow. We'll talk with Jihane Ball, Dow's Lead Sustainability Director. And we'll hear from Stephanie Kalil, Senior Global Business Director at Dow.

We'll also hear the perspective of a company that uses plastic in its production and packaging in our interview with Allison Lin, Global Vice President of Packaging Sustainability at Mars. Mars is one of the largest food and confectionery companies in the world.

Lindsey Hall: Now Jennifer Laidlaw teamed up with us for this series, and she'll be joining us again today. Jennifer is a senior writer on the S&P Global Sustainable1 Thought Leadership Team and a regular contributor to this podcast. Later in the episode, we'll hear her interview with the company that uses novel technology to recycled plastic. But first up, let's hear from Dow.

Jihane Ball: I'm Jihane Ball. I'm the Lead Sustainability Director and been with Dow 18 years. And my job is really to work across Dow businesses to help them transition to sustainable business models. And part of my job is also working externally with our peers in the industry, with governments, with regulators to make sure that we build the right external policy framework that will help sustain those business models and really help them be profitable and sustainable long term.

Stephanie Kalil: And my name is Stephanie Kalil. I'm the Senior Global Business Director for our polyethylene business. So I lead our polyethylene business globally to transition as we go toward a circular and low-carbon business. And also, that includes everything from all the investments that we're making, both for today and for the future as well as all of the innovations that come down the pipeline. I work closely with Jihane because obviously, policy and how things progress in this space are important to our future success.

Esther Whieldon: Great. Thank you. And can you quickly define for our listeners what polyethylene is?

Stephanie Kalil: Absolutely. Polyethylene is a type of plastic. It's one of the most commonly used types of plastics in a lot of the applications that you see plastics in, like food packaging, hygiene, medical. So it is a -- just a type of plastic that has a lot of functionality and is used across a broad array of applications.

Esther Whieldon: Okay. Well, let's start off with sort of as a baseline, can you give our listeners an idea of how Dow expects its plastics business to evolve?

Stephanie Kalil: Sure, Esther, let me start with that. I think there's a couple of things that aren't going to change in the plastics space. So demand for plastics materials around the world is continuing to grow really because there's an essential role that plastics play in enhancing the quality of life, right?

So they meet a lot of societal needs. You asked what polyethylene was. I mean things like food packaging, 80% of food products are packaged in plastics. Those often allow the food to last longer and reduces food waste, right? So other areas where you see plastics really pivotal in the markets are medical supplies, transportation, construction materials. So if you think about the way that the world is going, plastics do play an essential part in that.

However, what we need to also remember is that as we make that transition, we need to think about ensuring that sustainability is at the forefront. And plastics today are lower carbon intensity versus a lot of the other materials that can do the same job, often up to 50% lower.

But I think what we're really focused on now is how we take this and innovate options to be able to create a circular economy. And that's really what has led to Dow's 2 main goals that we can talk about, protect the climate, which is getting to net-zero emissions by 2050, and transform the waste, which is about achieving 3 million metric tons of circular and renewable solutions by 2030. And so those are 2 critical goals that are really shifting toward how the business is shifting, right?

So you asked how we're evolving. I mean as a material science company, we recognize that we have a big responsibility to play in this transformation and addressing climate change and plastic waste pollution. And so some of the things that we have done in the past is innovating best-in-class plastic resins, which is what we call them, just the pellets that then get used to make all the different things we talked about.

Those are tailored for specific applications, meeting the needs of customers and consumers, and innovating in that space is really in our DNA. But one of the things that we see shifting is consumer preferences are really shifting towards circular solutions. So they want more recycled content in their package. They want to ensure that their packages are recyclable. And we need to do all of that while being conscious that we're sustaining a low carbon footprint, right?

And so as we think about how the business will shift, we need to start thinking about designing materials that are going to deliver the performance needs for whatever application it is. 

Because we want to make sure that at the end of the day, the job is getting done and needs to get done, but also that we're shifting the business model from what has historically been a largely linear business model where you basically make, sell, consume, then dispose, right? To more of a circular model, which is going to start with us designing with the end in mind so that we can ensure that all the products that we make are recyclable and delivering the lowest carbon footprint. So that's going to take a couple of different forms, right? We're going to do that through designing products that focus on plastic reduction, so doing the same job with less material, that can also include reuse and recyclability.

The other part of that is enabling production of packaging from recycled content. So taking used plastic waste and then bringing that back into a new product, either through advanced recycling, which would be basically breaking down those molecules and turning it back into a raw material that then can be used to make a high-performance resin. and through mechanical recycling, which is essentially taking a used plastic package or product, breaking it back into flakes, so grinding it up, cleaning it and then turning it back into a usable product. So those are some of the ways that we're seeing the business shifting as we transition more toward a circular economy.

Jihane Ball: So what we've been working on, as Stephanie mentioned, is transformed the base. This is really about bringing back waste and getting plastic waste into our production to make plastics that are circular. So we know that to actually transition into the circular system, we need to begin to work up and down the value chain, maybe with stakeholders that we haven't worked with before.

So we've been trying to really tackle this issue from multiple angles, partnerships to really create ecosystems to bring back the waste, to really better design, produce, use and reuse and recycle plastic waste. We're also making sure that we're partnering in the value chain to develop the right technologies, whether that's for recycling or for other areas, including designing for circularity. So we're working on those Stephanie mentioned earlier that we're trying to design to enable circularity in the value chain.

Well one of the important things that we recognized is the gaps around the world to fully build waste management systems is big, so you're going to need to mobilize capital to help close those gaps globally. So we're trying to really invest and mobilize the broader ecosystem.

And I want to highlight here our work with the Alliance To End Plastic Waste, which is a value chain organization that was set up a few years ago. Dow is a founding member of the Alliance. It has different members of the value chain like the chemical resin producers, brands, waste managers, et cetera.

And what we're really trying to do is to pull money from the value chain and the collective intelligence and really demonstrate solution models that can work in different parts of the world in a small village, a rural area versus a big city to really make sure that we show what is an investable opportunity and circularity so we can unlock additional capital from development banks. And that is very important when it comes to the plastic treaty.

The other piece that we feel is really important is you can do all this work, but if you don't have enabling policies that can help incentivize and derisk the investments that need to be made, then you're not going to achieve the intended outcome of circularity and really reducing waste.

So this is where the plastic treaty comes in. I will say, I hope you heard in the way I spoke that is we're super supportive of an international, legally-binding instrument on plastic pollution because we really see it as a potential catalyst for plastic circularity. One really important piece to recognize is there's 3 billion people around the world today that actually lack basic access to waste management. And this is one of the big reasons we see plastics in the environment, and we all agree, it doesn't belong there.

So we want the agreement to be effective, right? And for it to be effective, it needs to bring as many countries under the tent as possible. But we also recognize that countries have different starting places, right, so no one size fits all, so it needs to also be implementable. And for this reason, it really needs to provide the countries with the right tools so they can actually build up their infrastructure, so they can start to introduce supportive policies over time, but the agreement also needs the hold countries accountable to make sure that we are making progress.

And Stephanie earlier talked about investments that need to be made for low carbon emission products and for circularity. We need the agreement to also mobilize the investments to enhance the waste management system. So what we hope at INC-4 is that countries find a way to find alignment because the discussion got very polarized in the previous meetings. But we really need this agreement to happen. It's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

Esther Whieldon: To what extent are lawmakers and governments kind of looking to companies like yours to see that the things they're hoping to achieve are like actually doable, right? Like is this something they really need to hear from the business side to feel confident moving forward?

Jihane Ball: Yes. I think it's important to be able to have a discussion and show what's possible, right? And this is why I think the projects of the Alliance To End Plastic Waste, they have a big flagship project in Indonesia that's going to deliver waste management services to many people, millions of people that don't have it today. And that's helping to unlock additional external capital.

I think it's really important to show countries that don't know where to start how to build a national action plan to be able to manage the waste, how to build a system from A to Z, how to basically, in the end, introduce the right policies because the system needs to become self-sustaining. So the right policies at the right time will be important.

So it is important to show what is possible and it's important to show how it can be different depending on whether it's a rural area or a city. So absolutely, businesses need to be there, and we need to show how it can be done. And we need to do our part because, again, going from a linear to a circular system, you need every actor in that chain to be doing their piece, the financial institutions, the brands, the waste managers, chemical resin producers like us, we all need to do our part.

And the consumers at some point, right? They need to understand if you're building a system from scratch, how do they engage? What are you going to ask from them? Are they going to be separating things at source, right, to enable the sorting and recycling? So yes, we are one actor in that big group of actors, and we need to show what is possible in our role as well.

Stephanie Kalil: And I think just to add to that, I mean, it's such a critical point that the things that we're doing today and that we talked about in terms of innovating solutions, a lot of these things we can do on our own, but transitioning to a circular economy is going to take everybody, right? And getting there is essential to stopping plastic pollution.

So I think it's just really important to emphasize that point that we need the whole value chain working together towards finding solutions. So as Jihane said, the waste management infrastructure in many parts of the world isn't developed, and that's causing plastic to leak into the environment. And so in order for us to close that gap, we need to really mobilize these circular ecosystems.

That's why we say close the loop. We have to close the loop, right? Bring things from -- instead of from start to end, it's from end and put it back into the cycle. And ultimately, what we want to do is ensure that the plastic's environmental benefits match its practical social benefits.

Esther Whieldon: Now in episode 1 of this plastic miniseries, we heard how plastic makes up about 4% of annual global greenhouse gas emissions. As Stephanie mentioned today, Dow has set a net-zero emissions target. She went on to describe some of the investments Dow is making towards reaching that goal, including as part of its planned expansion of one of its plants in Alberta, Canada.

Stephanie Kalil: I think one of the largest investments is our Fort Saskatchewan investment. So what this is, is it's the world's first integrated ethylene, polyethylene net-zero site, so it'll be net-zero emissions. And it's going to help us produce products to meet the growing demand that we're seeing across industry for plastic products such as food, hygiene, infrastructure, all these different types of applications, and it's going to be able to deliver that in a low-carbon way.

So the total project is going to grow our ethylene capacity by about 15%. By decarbonizing the site, not only the added capacity, but also the existing capacity that we have there, we're achieving 30% of Dow's 2030 path to 0 goal. So it's huge towards advancing us towards our 2050 goal, and it's creating additional earning upside for us to capture value from selling low carbon products while meeting all those customer demands.

Esther Whieldon: I want to ask, how is it net-zero emissions at the facility? What are you doing to sort of net out the emissions there?

Stephanie Kalil: So the focus there is really about using carbon capture and sequestration and storage. The infrastructure already exists in Alberta, which is part of what makes Alberta very attractive for this investment. So it's really about capturing the carbon from the production and then able to store it.

We're also using other technologies that are helping us to ensure that every part of the process is decarbonized. And so that's really where the focus is. And when I talk about Scope 1 and 2 emissions, those are our direct admissions, our indirect emissions, right? So things that we can control. And that's really where the focus is. So we're going to be retrofitting the entire site to net-zero, and that's going to help us achieve that 30% reduction that I mentioned.

Esther Whieldon: So we have the perspective of the plastics producer, what about consumer companies that use plastic in their products and packaging. For that, let's turn to Allison Lin to hear what sustainability strategies Mars is implementing.

By the way, we recently had Kevin Rabinovitch, Global Vice President of Sustainability and Chief Climate Officer at Mars on the podcast, where he talked about what the company is doing to make its supply chains more sustainable, and we'll include a link to that in our show notes. Okay, here's Allison, who starts off by describing her role.

Allison Lin: So it involves understanding what is our strategy, which includes reducing and eliminating the amount of packaging and plastics that we're using, including reuse models. It includes looking at how we're redesigning our portfolio for circularity. And then lastly, look at how we invest to close the loop, including partnerships and recycled content.

One thing I'm really proud of is that we've invigorated and mobilized the organization to invest hundreds of millions of dollars and have strong plans to redesign over 12,000 packaging components on our journey to a more sustainable packaging. And we've now linked that to executive compensation, which is really embedding it into the business.

Esther Whieldon: So you mentioned that you have some executive compensation tied to achieving this target. Can you talk about what that looks like?

Allison Lin: Yes, sure. So we've attached this to the top 300 of our organization in their variable compensation, along with greenhouse gas reduction. And that's important to us because we don't think that packaging sustainability, along with greenhouse gas reduction is only tied to the sustainability team or the packaging R&D organization. We really think everybody has a role, which is why we chose to do this across the organization.

Esther Whieldon: What are some of the other strategies or targets you've set?

Allison Lin: So first, we looked at reducing the amount of plastic that we use. We have a target of 25% reduction. We're also targeting 30% recycled content. And then we have an internal metric to look at how we're redesigning our packaging and our plastics portfolio for circularity.

And no, we don't just call it designing for recyclability because we think it needs to go a little bit further than that. We want to include both reused and combustible options as part of this. And we also think that we need to take into account the waste management infrastructure that our packaging is going into. So for a package to be included, to be designed for circularity, it needs to take into account the type of infrastructure that the packages go into.

Esther Whieldon: Yes. And I know there have been some big challenges in recycling in general, right?

Allison Lin: Absolutely. And again, I think there's places where it is working better than others, and we want to learn from that. I know that we also want to talk about the global plastics treaty later today, but part of that work is understanding and learning from where it is working, what type of legislation is in place, what type of enabling conditions there are, and then try to reapply that to where recycling isn't working as well as it should be or is really in its infancy.

Esther Whieldon: So what are some of the lessons Mars has learned along the way on trying to reduce plastics waste?

Allison Lin: I think there's 3 big things. So first, there's a big intersection of packaging sustainability with the livelihoods of people as well as with climate. So we can't look at packaging in isolation. So we need to understand how packaging in plastics impacts as the social aspect throughout its whole life cycle.

We have a partnership with an NGO called Delterra, who's focused on systematizing waste collection and recycling. And they had this lens of gender equality in the communities that they're working in and elevating the role of women, who are often the most marginalized in these communities to transition to better waste management systems. So one, making sure we look at that and then also take into consideration what are the greenhouse gas impacts of the different packaging that we're moving into. So leaning into that circularity.

Two, we really need to bring the whole organization along with us. I think Kevin mentioned in your previous podcast, really understanding who are the people who are really good at those things and getting to know them, and that's 100% true for packaging. So we need to understand if we're making future acquisitions, what does the packaging look like of those acquisitions? And how could they impact our performance and goals?

How do business decisions, like where do we want to grow, impact the packaging format for those countries that we want to grow in or those categories that we want to grow in? As well as with consumers, I think packaging more than most environmental topics have an outsized impact on the mindshare of consumers because they have to do something with the package at the end of the day. So helping consumers and our consumer marketing teams understand how to think about packaging sustainability and communicate that with our consumer base is extremely important.

And the last thing is we 100% can't do it alone. Like packaging, especially the waste management infrastructure is a global, industry-wide issue. We're part of groups like the Ellen MacArthur Foundation, The Consumer Goods Forum as well as the Business Coalition for a Global Plastics Treaty that are all working collectively to try to address this issue of packaging waste and plastic pollution.

Esther Whieldon: Thank you. So what are the biggest challenges remaining for you? And what are some solutions you're exploring?

Allison Lin: One of the biggest challenges that we're facing is what to do with packaging in countries where there is a robust waste management system. And based on either waste management funding in the state of the current infrastructure, we don't think there's going to be good waste management systems in the near future, so what do we do in those countries? I think that's, again, where partnerships is extremely important. So we work with Delterra to understand what happens to our packaging in those countries.

And they're also helping us understand what are the interventions that actually improve collection, sorting and recycling systems in those countries. And that also includes looking at our packaging and understand what has higher value to waste pickers in those countries because there's a very large informal sector. And really, really getting laser focused on what is happening to our packaging and making sure we keep that in mind as we redesign. We can't redesign a package the same way for Europe as we would for some of these countries without that waste management infrastructure.

We also need to work really closely with government because that's a -- they have a huge role in establishing the right types of waste management infrastructure and improving waste management infrastructure. So we look at both redesign of our packaging as well as advocacy with government groups as core parts of our strategy.

Esther Whieldon: Now you mentioned something, waste pickers. Can you explain what you mean by that?

Allison Lin: Sure. In many countries, there's an informal waste sector where there's basically not the truck that comes along that we're used to, right, where we put our recyclables and trash in bins and they're collected by the trucks that come along on a weekly or biweekly basis. In many of these countries, trash is either in open dumps or managed dumps. And there's an informal sector that helps collect the recyclables from that.

Now if you can think about that, there's a lot of sanitation issues, there's a lot of safety issues. So a lot of the work is to understand how do we ensure a just transition for this major sector of the waste management economy and again, make sure, especially in their plastics treaty and as we look at formalizing some of the waste management infrastructure, making sure there's a just transition for this group.

Esther Whieldon: Can you talk to me about what role Mars is playing on talking with governments, and including like these treaty negotiations, what kind of role do you see yourself playing and how involved you are?

Allison Lin: Sure. So first, a little bit about the treaty. It's really a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to look at how can we address plastic pollution at a global level. Right now, legislation is very local. I mean something is different from one county to the other in the U.S., and you multiply that across the globe. So we really see this as an opportunity to harmonize plastic regulations and really packaging waste and all waste regulation around the world.

The way we're involved, we're primarily involved through a group called the Business Coalition for a Global Plastics Treaty, which is comprised of over 200 organizations, including brand owners, financial institutions, packaging suppliers, waste management companies and NGOs. All coming together to advocate for an ambitious, legally binding treaty to address plastic pollution, which is really powerful. If you think about all of the different groups involved in that value network coming together to advocate for the reduction as the first principle of circulation of what has been needed after reduction. And then finally, prevention and remediation of remaining plastics.

It's been really amazing to work with this group. And via this group, it's secretariat-ed by the WWF Foundation as well as Ellen MacArthur Foundation. And they have done a really good job of helping us have a cohesive voice into their treaty process. I haven't been involved in many other treaty negotiations, but from the folks who have, they've really said the business community has, in a good way, had some input and ability to input into the treaty process. And I think one of the reasons is we're actually asking for regulation.

A lot of legislators I talked to are surprised when companies are asking for regulation. Usually, business don't like to be regulated. And we said, "Yes, but we want to harmonize regulation," right? Now we're being regulated in a hundred -- in multiple hundred different ways, and we need this to be harmonized to be effective, so that we know where we can invest and drive solutions faster than we are today. And also to level of the playing field.

Mars, along with multiple other companies, are part of the Ellen MacArthur Foundation Global Commitment for new plastic economy, and that's about 20% of plastic packaging that's currently put on the market. Across most metrics, we're outperforming -- actually, across all metrics, we're outperforming the industry, but we really need this global treaty to help with that remaining 80%, and again, level the playing field for those of us who are taking voluntary initiatives.

Esther Whieldon: And you've been participating in these, right? This is an accelerated time line. How confident are you that a treaty will ultimately be able to be reached?

Allison Lin: Yes. It's extremely accelerated. So for folks who aren't familiar, it's -- the treaty has been negotiated over a 2-year process, which is extremely fast as multilateral agreements go. I will say I've been extremely impressed with the up-leveling of knowledge and the level of discussion that's happening at each of the negotiation sessions.

So I think regardless of what happens, there's this huge global up-leveling of knowledge that has happened via the treaty negotiations process. And I really think we have the opportunity to have a start and strengthened approach with the treaty, right? I think there's some minimum requirements we can have in the treaty language as well as in the annexes and then we can continue with that and strengthen it over time.

Esther Whieldon: So we heard with large companies like Mars and Dow are doing. Let's turn next to hearing from a company that's in the emerging technology side and trying to innovate plastic recycling. For this, let's bring in Jennifer Laidlaw, who conducted our next interview. Welcome back, Jennifer. Who did you talk to?

Jennifer Laidlaw: So there's a number of companies and start-ups coming up with novel ideas of addressing plastic pollution. And as we mentioned earlier on, I spoke to one of them, Plastic Energy, which uses technology to recycle the fossil fuels in plastic and create recycled plastic. Here's Adela Putinelu, the company's Head of Policy and Sustainability, explaining what Plastic Energy is and how its technology works.

Adela Putinelu: So Plastic Energy is a technology provider in chemical recycling. So we recycle plastic waste that is normally not recycled through any other means. So films and flexible packaging, essentially using a closed-loop recycling process. So post-consumer plastic waste being recycled back into plastic packaging that's put on the market.

Chemical recycling normally converts polymeric waste by changing its chemical structure. So it turns it back into substances that can be used for the manufacturing of new plastics in our case or other products. We use a patented technology, which is called TAC, or Thermal Anaerobic Conversion, which basically means that you're heating the plastic in the absence of oxygen, and this turns into hydrocarbon vapors that then will then be condensed into a recycled oil, which we call TACOIL.

And we've been doing this since 2016. We use a lot of strong operational experience. We have 2 recycling plants in Spain. They have been operational ever since 2016. And yes, we're the first company to use this process to produce recycled oils through this technology and use it as part of the manufacturing of new plastic.

Jennifer Laidlaw: And how does that compare to traditional recycling?

Adela Putinelu: So it's quite different in the sense that the traditional way of recycling were through mechanical means, you're kind of taking the plastic waste, washing it, melting it and re-granulating it. It doesn't necessarily change any of the chemical structure composition. And that works well for certain polymers. It doesn't really work well for all plastics that we have. And it kind of has some challenges of its own. For example, you're continuously degrading the properties of the plastics, you're not really able to obtain the same quality when you're using that recycled plastic into other plastic packaging or other plastic products. 

So this is what we can overcome with the use of a chemical technology because you're keeping those important properties, and you can do a closed-loop system. So that means, for example, for polyolefins, which is our target feedstock, mechanical recycling is not able to use polyolefin, flexible plastics to use it for food contact applications because of the issues related to the contamination in the mechanical process. So for PET, that's quite easy to do through mechanical recycling. We can have a plastic bottle that we can recycle, and that recycled plastics is used to make another plastic model.

When it comes to other polymers, for example, polyethylene, polypropylene, that's not really possible. So that's why chemical recycling is very important because it works alongside with the already established mechanical recycling technologies.

Jennifer Laidlaw: So I wondered, what happens next after the plastic waste is recycled? Here's Adela to explain. You will hear her mention Tesco, a chain of U.K. supermarkets, and Berry Global, a plastics packaging manufacturer.

Adela Putinelu: So we partner with a lot of different companies. For example, petrochemical companies that will be offtaking our products to further process it in their existing petrochemical infrastructure to create plastic that has integrated this recycled oil. So instead of using a virgin oil, they use the TACOIL that we provide.

So for example, back in 2020, we have partnered with SABIC, which is a petrochemical company to create packaging for Magnum ice cream and also, Knorr Stock Pots. These have been sold back in 2020 in the European market.

One of our latest partnership in 2022, a collaboration between Heinz, Tesco, SABIC and Berry Global, who convert plastic packaging into Heinz Beanz Snap Pots. The plastic waste was collected by Tesco at in-store collection points in their supermarkets. And then together with the other partners, we have managed to provide a closed-loop packaging solution.

So yes, it's very exciting that we get to work with a lot of very different stakeholders as part of these partnerships. And we get to demonstrate that it is possible to recycle plastic waste back into food packaging.

Jennifer Laidlaw: Okay. Great. Must be nice. You're eating a Magnum ice cream, and you can say, "Ha, this is made with recycled packaging." How do you work with companies to ensure that they're using recycled plastics themselves throughout their supply chain?

Adela Putinelu: So there are different certification schemes that ensure the traceability of the recycled plastic along the different parts of the supply chain. We work with ISCC, which is an international certification scheme that helps us to demonstrate the traceability. They verify that we sell the TACOIL further downstream in the supply chain, so they would be verifying it at each of these stages, the fact that the quantities are traced throughout the supply chain, and it reaches the converter and then the finished plastic products.

Jennifer Laidlaw: You're active in several countries, in Spain and France. What plans do you have to expand into other countries?

Adela Putinelu: We're a truly global company, I would say, because we're headquartered in London. Most of our staff is headquartered in London. We have the 2 recycle facilities that I was talking about. They're in Seville and Almeria in Spain. We have 2 facilities under construction to be completed later this year, one in Netherlands in partnership with SABIC, one in France, a joint venture with Total.

We're also very active in the Asian market. So I guess we're at that stage where we're rapidly accelerating the use of our technology globally in all of these different regions. So we try to make best use of all of the opportunities that arise in the market globally. So in Europe but also in Asia and in other regions as well.

We're planning to also attend the plastics treaty session. And the activities that we do are going to, hopefully, echo into the global plastics treaty. And we're very much expanding globally. And hopefully, with the right signal there through the global treaty, we're able to accelerate the use of our technology at the global level.

Jennifer Laidlaw: And do you think innovation and technology in this field are basically key to solving the problem of having too much plastic in the world?

Adela Putinelu: It's one important part of it, I would say, having the right combination of technologies that are working well to recycle the plastic packaging and the other plastics that we're using. That's one important part of it, right, the technology, the innovation, making sure that we accelerate the use of these technologies, and we are able to recycle higher and higher quantities. So you get to a point where you're able to recycle most of the stuff that you're actually using, which we're quite far away from. 

That's one thing. But then obviously, you need to think also at the sort of broader diversity of measures, which will evolve reuse as well. Then I think we need simple things in play to make it simple for consumers to recycle. Some countries are better than others in Europe that have very efficient curbside collection systems, where your plastics will be collected, then sorted and sent for recycling, that needs to improve.

Also, companies to ensure that the plastic they put on the market is easily recyclable in the first place, right, which is not the case really. It's not going to be a matter of what you can or cannot recycle, all of them will be recycled through a range of different technologies. So all of these different aspects are important.

Then most importantly, they need to work together. So while we work in recycling, and that's the focus of our company and our technology, I think broadly, there needs to be consideration of the entire landscape of which recycling is just one part.

Esther Whieldon: So we've covered a lot of ground in recent episodes. Thank you so much, Jennifer, for partnering with us in this miniseries on plastic. I wonder, are there any takeaways that you want to mention?

Jennifer Laidlaw: Yes, definitely. What really struck me is that there's not one silver bullet that will solve the challenges plastic is bringing to our lives. It's going to take time, investment and just simply, recycling is not a solution.

Lindsey Hall: I would add one more takeaway, which is a theme we've been covering a lot on this podcast, and that's how partnerships across the public and private sector will also play an important role. Please stay tuned as we continue tracking the evolving discussion around the plastic treaty and also solutions to the plastic pollution problem.

Lindsey Hall: Thanks so much for listening to this episode of ESG Insider. If you like what you heard today, please subscribe, share and leave us a review wherever you get your podcast.

Esther Whieldon: And a special thanks to our agency partner, The 199. See you next time.

Copyright ©2024 by S&P Global  

This piece was published by S&P Global Sustainable1, a part of S&P Global.     

DISCLAIMER  

By accessing this Podcast, I acknowledge that S&P GLOBAL makes no warranty, guarantee, or representation as to the accuracy or sufficiency of the information featured in this Podcast. The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice. Unless specifically stated otherwise, S&P GLOBAL does not endorse, approve, recommend, or certify any information, product, process, service, or organization presented or mentioned in this Podcast, and information from this Podcast should not be referenced in any way to imply such approval or endorsement. The third party materials or content of any third party site referenced in this Podcast do not necessarily reflect the opinions, standards or policies of S&P GLOBAL. S&P GLOBAL assumes no responsibility or liability for the accuracy or completeness of the content contained in third party materials or on third party sites referenced in this Podcast or the compliance with applicable laws of such materials and/or links referenced herein. Moreover, S&P GLOBAL makes no warranty that this Podcast, or the server that makes it available, is free of viruses, worms, or other elements or codes that manifest contaminating or destructive properties.  

S&P GLOBAL EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS ANY AND ALL LIABILITY OR RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR OTHER DAMAGES ARISING OUT OF ANY INDIVIDUAL'S USE OF, REFERENCE TO, RELIANCE ON, OR INABILITY TO USE, THIS PODCAST OR THE INFORMATION PRESENTED IN THIS PODCAST.