Invesco CEO Andrew Schlossberg on Asset Management, AI & Football Culture

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Joe Cass

[00:00:00]

Hello and welcome. My name is Joe Cass, Senior Director at S&P Global Ratings and the host and the creator of the Leaders podcast. So on this episode, we have Andrew Schlossberg, President and CEO of Invesco, and Dan Draper, CEO of S&P Dow Jones Indices. So a quick compliance reminder that the views of the external guests are their views alone, and they do not represent the views of S&P Global. Andrew, I'll kick off with you.

Andrew Schlossberg

[00:00:31]

Sure.

Joe Cass

[00:00:31]

So you joined Invesco straight out of business school, straight into the corporate training program. So can you talk a bit about the company, how it's changed since the early days, and also how you've moved through the company to eventually become President and CEO.

Andrew Schlossberg

[00:00:47]

Yes. Thanks, Joe. It's hard to believe it's been a while. So I started at Invesco in 2001. I started the industry in 1996. And, as you said, I did join in our corporate rotation program. Invesco, called Investcorp back in 2001, was a holding company of asset managers.

And we had, I don't know, $300 billion, $400 billion of assets under management, but it was almost all active or was all active management. It was almost all public investments, very little privates, and it was large in the U.S. and in the U.K. principally while participating in some other countries.

And the idea when I joined from the senior management at the time was to have this set of MBA graduates that would rotate around the business and it, being a holding company, connect us all -- connect the company over time. The timing was a little off for me. So it was right around 9/11, and the fallout of the financial outcomes, and the economic outcomes.

That program ended for me six months after it started. And so I went right into the business, fortunately, I was able to grab a seat in the musical chairs. And I just decided, I put my head to it, that I'd have my own rotation program as it were. So 20, 25 years later, I was able to work throughout the company, lots of different roles, a couple of countries, a few cities.

And now fast forward to today, Invesco is a $1.9 trillion asset manager, now in the private space and the public space, in the active space, the passive space. We're the fourth largest ETF provider in the world. We're $130 billion of private market assets. And we're not just U.S. and U.K., it's a big global profile, strong out in Asia and Europe. So it's a very different company and the rotation program, I think, worked because we're an integrated global asset manager now.

Joe Cass

[00:02:44]

Perfect. Thanks, Andrew.

Andrew Schlossberg

[00:02:47]

Absolutely.

Joe Cass

[00:02:47]

Dan, as CEO of S&P Dow Jones Indices, can you provide us with a breakdown of the services you provide, the products you bring to the market, and how this has evolved over time?

Dan Draper

[00:02:58]

Yes. So S&P Dow Jones Indices, really, has an origin that goes back to 120 years ago. What is now the Dow Jones or Dow Jones Industrial Average, it started in kind of the rail industry, but really built what first were barometers because back then, Charles Dow, a publisher for the Wall Street Journal, wanted to get, without economic indicators on the U.S. economy, which was kind of an emerging economy back then, how can I get a barometer on how the country is doing? And he noticed their stock prices.

And again, he picked the rail industry and eventually industrial. So with that history, this barometer over time, became used as a benchmark. And it was really then 67 years ago when the S&P 500 was developed that as a benchmark for performance, particularly for active management. So investors could really figure out risk and then the adjusted returns around that, how am I doing?

And so, really, the barometer became a benchmark and then we had, in the '70s and '80s, nascent passive investing around index mutual funds and then really the '90s and 2000s, explosion of ETFs. The benchmarks then became, really, as we think about today, indices and used around a variety of investable products.

So asset management, ETFs, index mutual funds, but also really critical for us, is in the derivative space, using for risk management. So we have the leading business around futures, options with the leading derivative exchanges like CME and CBOT.

And again, that provides opportunities for hedging. And there's been a huge amount of innovation in that area, particularly in the last four to five years. And then finally, all of those users of our benchmarks and indices, they need the data. So for us to be able to provide the data to support all of that.

Joe Cass

[00:04:46]

Great. Thanks, Dan. Andrew, you've been CEO of Invesco you mentioned for coming up to a year now. What have been some of the most surprising aspects of taking on the role as CEO?

Andrew Schlossberg

[00:04:58]

Yes. I wouldn't say so much surprises, but I'd definitely say confirmations. And maybe the two biggest ones I can think of are, on the client side, I think as I inherited this role as CEO, there's a lot going on, as we all know, around the world, geopolitically, macroeconomic.

And what I've been -- what's confirmed for me is that our clients, even our most sophisticated clients, their ears are wide open to needing advice, and wanting advice, and wanting to hear perspectives as they're trying to figure out what to do with their asset allocations, what to do with their placements.

And so I've been -- it's been good to see how open clients are and maybe more than I've ever experienced it to really hearing multiple perspectives. And I think the other one I'd say is the resilience of our employee base. I think we've all been through a lot the last several years just globally and as humanity.

And then also as we take Invesco forward and make a lot of changes and innovate to where the industry is going and things that are happening, how much the employee base really has embraced that change and that evolution as we get sharper in our strategic priorities, as we get clearer about our organizational design, as we bring and promote people through the ranks, or bring people in from the outside, there's really sort of a winning mindset towards evolving and innovation is going to create better outcomes than just being stagnant. And so I've just been incredibly impressed by the resilience of the organization.

Joe Cass

[00:06:38]

Fantastic. Thanks, Andrew. Dan, you've been CEO of S&P Dow Jones Indices for just shy of five years now. Could you provide very kind of high-level summary of initiative from, say, the past 12 months? And any growth areas you're really excited about in 2025?

Dan Draper

[00:06:56]

Yes. No, I think when I kind of entered five years ago, we had already seen indices and particularly passive investing had really moved from kind of an early growth stage where there was just a lot of opportunity to then really in kind of a more mature phase. And clearly, things like ETFs have become well-established around the world.

And so I think coming in five years ago was really to hone our competitive advantages within S&P Dow Jones Indices, thinking about the client channels and priorities as well as the product mix. So really kind of coming in.

But behind it all was the super management team that I have in place and all kind of the employees because I think there's so many opportunities that we have and innovations on the technology side, again, client demand evolving, but it's really narrowing down to where we can really be at our best, and really bring that best to our customers like Invesco and our partners around the world.

So I think it's been a good opportunity for us to kind of focus in on kind of the bigger opportunities. And I think just to build this incredible brand and make more people aware of kind of the services that we can provide. So I think it's been a great journey. And along the way, managing COVID and the pandemic, we had a bear market in '22, early '23.

So it wasn't kind of all smooth sailing, but I think the resilience of what we've been able to do, and then really looking forward, yes, managing various risks, but also a lot of optimism for opportunities. Andrew had mentioned private markets earlier. That's a nascent space for benchmarking, for example. Clearly, on the data side, getting Gen AI-ready data available to our customers.

And as I mentioned as well earlier, the derivative markets really exciting opportunities for thinking about enhanced income or risk management solutions by using the derivative franchise that we offer to customers. So a lot to look forward to going forward.

Andrew Schlossberg

[00:08:47]

And hey, Joe, I can say Dan and I worked together in the past. And Dan has been -- was always a great leader, and I know he is now at S&P and also a great innovator, so it's been fun to see the innovation you guys have been bringing to S&P, Dan, over the last several years.

Dan Draper

[00:09:03]

Well, thank you. Andrew is modest. I work for Andrew.

Andrew Schlossberg

[00:09:07]

I'm not sure that was true, Dan. We were partners.

Dan Draper

[00:09:10]

We'll talk more, I think, later about the cultures, but it's fantastic to be here and join stage with Andrew.

Joe Cass

[00:09:19]

Great. Fantastic. Good stuff. Andrew, as the CEO of one of the largest asset managers globally, I'd be really interested if you could share your view on the asset management industry. So there seems to be a lot of consolidation, ongoing changes. What's your view of the state of the industry and maybe its evolution?

Andrew Schlossberg

[00:09:39]

Yes. It's a great industry. And I stumbled into it, I think like a lot of people stumble into their careers, but in particular, in asset management. And I only think it's -- days are brighter ahead than even the past.

And I say that just because there's -- the purpose behind it is looking after people's capital, whether that's institutions or individuals. And so there's a noble purpose to the whole thing. And I think it creates energy and a spirit for people that join the industry or people that are in the industry.

But there's also some significant secular changes that are going on in asset management, around asset management that I think are creating places where more capital is going to be available for asset managers to manage, and there's going to be more money in motion. And so the two things I'll point out just by example quickly are demographic changes.

And so whether that's in the U.S. in a developed market where generational wealth transfer is going to happen from baby boomers to the next generation, or whether that's demographic changes out in Asia where population growth is changing, or where there's nascent retirement markets like China, or early savings markets and investment markets like there is in Japan.

And then I think the second big secular change that's adjusting things in the asset management space has to do with -- the way I refer to it as kind of old equations that are breaking down with regard to how investment content or capabilities are delivered through vehicles to end investors.

And so the old adages were mutual funds equaled to active and passive equaled to ETF, SMAs, separately managed accounts equaled wealthy individuals or institutions, private markets equaled institutional. All those things are changing. Those equations are all getting rewritten.

And I think it's a great opportunity for asset managers that have a diverse profile to really kind of rematch those equations and democratize a lot of what's historically been, I think, kind of a one mono direction. And I know Dan and his team at S&P have similar thoughts around how those equations are getting rewritten. But anyway, brighter days ahead, I think, for asset managers as we move forward.

Joe Cass

[00:11:55]

Got it.

Dan Draper

[00:11:55]

I mean, I'll just add. I definitely think the core role, which, by the way, SP Dow Jones, we're not a fiduciary. We don't manage any money, and that's critical to our business model because our independence and transparency as a provider to that ecosystem, that's what gives us a lot of the -- we hope to the benefit around trusting our brand. So we want to be independent.

But if I put my previous hat on earlier, I mean, that fiduciary responsibility of being an asset manager, some of the elements are timeless. I mean, you have a responsibility of the care of your customers' assets. That doesn't change.

But the way that you deliver -- and everything that Andrew said whether they're macro trends or specifically, those customers are better aware, they're better equipped and they're demanding -- I think the term used, Andrew, democratization is right.

The end customers are being more empowered. And I think the asset management industry -- and we're certainly committed to giving more data, better data tools and obviously, benchmarks to really help our customers service those increasing demands.

Joe Cass

[00:12:56]

Fantastic. Thank you both. Dan, I know you can't provide any type of market predictions, or forecast, or anything like that. But could you speak to the popularity of index-based investing, which seems to have grown rapidly over the past few years. So what do you think are the key drivers behind this trend?

Dan Draper

[00:13:15]

Yes. Look, I think it's been multi-decades, in fact, Joe. I think the low cost, the transparency that it's provided, and increasingly, it kind of -- it's almost a digital approach and its transparency. And then I think you put a very innovative wrapper, things like ETFs around it. It -- yes, it kind of symbolizes a lot of the analog to digital transformation.

And not just passive, that ETF wrapper is now being used for active solutions and things like that. So I think you've had that increase moving forward. I also think that, again, being able to really have the transparency around risk-adjusted performance, it's added, I think, a huge kind of amount of value.

And I think going forward, looking at new opportunities like private markets, being able to introduce more benchmarks. They're less than half of the number of publicly traded companies in the U.S. than 30, 35 years ago.

A lot of those companies have been private or a lot of the newer companies are staying private longer. So that could be valuable in client portfolios, how do fiduciaries like Invesco think about managing, and having benchmarks, and explaining risk-adjusted performance to customers.

So those are exciting new areas. And hopefully, we can take elements of success in the past couple of decades "around passive", but applying it to broader solution-based portfolios, including active -- including passive -- sorry, public and private assets.

Joe Cass

[00:14:43]

Great. Thanks, Dan. Andrew, moving -- shifting gears, I guess, a little bit. How are you looking to integrate AI into the business at Invesco? And have you got any specific examples of how AI could maybe help your employees or even your clients?

Andrew Schlossberg

[00:15:02]

Yes. I mean, for undoubtedly, the technology and the speed at which change is happening through AI and now generative AI is staggering. And we have a lot of data as a business in the way we look at things and think about them. So it's ripe with opportunities. For the moment, it's really, for us, focused on efficiency gains.

But that's not to say that there aren't effectiveness gains going forward as well. And ultimately, we'll see places where we can apply this in the way we invest and in the way we engage and service clients. But right now, it's really around efficiency One of the things we found -- I found in the last year to get us to develop even better use cases.

And right now, we're working on 10 to 15 of them, is to really make sure that they're deeply aligned with our strategy and where we're going, not just use cases for use cases.

And the other, I think, is to get the tools, whether they're our homegrown tools in generative AI or off-the-shelf tools into the hands of all 8,500 of our employees, which we've done and allow them to start to copilot their work with these tools. And that generates a whole set of new ideas, but frankly, a whole set of new training. And so we're deeply into that process as well. So efficiency for now, but I can see no end to the applications of generative AI.

Joe Cass

[00:16:30]

Great. Thanks, Andrew. And Dan? Go ahead.

Dan Draper

[00:16:33]

Yes. I was just going to add on two seconds. I love Andrew's point about the -- starting with kind of the employees and people part of AI because I do think, when -- we can't ignore all the headlines.

But at S&P, we put in place pretty early a partnership with Accenture just simply to train employees. And I've done the training. I think nearly, we have almost 100% participation, but it was just to give people a common understanding around things like prompt engineering and how to use things effectively, clearly around privacy.

But I think just getting the education and getting your team really looking forward about this as a tool. And I do think, like Andrew said, the efficiencies are going to be pretty clear coming forward. But it's the creativity we want to unleash.

And I think being able to create more value-added time for our customers and creating great new solutions and things like that. But yes, Gen AI is going to have a significant impact. And I think for us, it will be kind of data first, how we really start thinking about being able to provide AI-ready data over time to customers like Invesco or the broader marketplace.

Andrew Schlossberg

[00:17:38]

Yes. And all of that said, and I'll speak for Invesco, but the -- we're in this fiduciary business. We're also dealing with people's money. And so we're going to take our time in rolling out these tools and making sure that it's done well, and right, and protected. And I think most everybody in the-- in every industry, but in particular, in regulated industries like ours.

Joe Cass

[00:18:04]

Yes, absolutely. Thanks, both. Dan, sticking with AI, at a high level, how could AI impact the indexing business as a whole?

Dan Draper

[00:18:16]

Yes. That's a great question. It's interesting. I had -- my management team and I were in San Francisco about 10 days ago, and we've met the OpenAI and a lot of even the smaller, mid-sized players as well in that space. And it's incredible. And I think the one term that came up again is AI agents. So this term of agents.

And how do you really think about managing not only human beings and people, but you're going to have a combined kind of workforce, including people and agents.

So how do you -- and again, how do you really orientate org design, kind of your strategy around kind of agile working processes incorporating all of those together? So it just -- it's early stages, but I think getting that embedded in that opportunity, it also really kind of encourages you to really accelerate that thinking.

Some of your toughest problems, maybe some of your system upgrades or you're trying to think through increasing time to market on products by having kind of that broader thinking, you really start thinking differently about employing some of these tools, maybe a little quicker in some of the processes and thinking about that moving forward.

We're fortunate at S&P. We bought Kensho, a business back in 2018 and been able to -- Joe, as you know, build our own internal model, Spark Assist. And that's been fantastic, and I think it's helped kind of the training along, but we need to think much more holistically.

And certainly from S&P Dow Jones Indices, I don't think we can move quickly enough. We have to just continue to leverage the great capabilities at S&P Global also with our opportunities out in the marketplace. But yes, this is going to be impactful, and we need to -- things are moving quickly.

Joe Cass

[00:19:55]

Fantastic. Yes, it's interesting. I've been asking kind of similar questions about AI on this podcast to CEOs like you guys for about 18 months. And it's the kind of responses that you guys have now versus kind of different individuals 18 months ago is very different.

It seems very kind of -- there's a plan in place, everyone is trained. We know what we need to do. It's evolving very quickly. But it's so interesting to see how quickly, as Andrew said, this whole space is moving.

Dan Draper

[00:20:26]

Definitely.

Joe Cass

[00:20:26]

Okay. Andrew, you've been through -- as we've kind of discussed, you've been through the company in terms of Invesco. So what advice would you give new employees or even graduates joining Invesco in order to be successful?

Andrew Schlossberg

[00:20:42]

Yes. You know, especially for those that are just joining the industry, or just joining the company, or really it can apply anywhere, I suppose. It's this concept of it's not just what you get done and accomplished, but how you get it done that matters a lot. And I know that's true for Invesco. I'm certain it's true for most other companies as well.

But it's really this notion of I try to give advice around building relationships with people, be in a hurry, but don't rush too much and be thoughtful. So that's one, I think, that it can apply across, and I try to share that as often as I can. I think the other is maybe for newer graduates or new joiners to the company. I mean, we're a business that's operating in 20 countries across all these asset classes.

Try new things, look to have multiple careers, as I like to describe my career at Invesco at one company. And for some people, they figured out really quickly what path they're on and what their discipline is that they enjoy. But others, it takes time, and others want to have a variety of experiences.

And I really try to encourage people to work both inside the company and work with us to find those opportunities, have multiple careers, and hopefully spend their whole career at Invesco.

Joe Cass

[00:22:07]

Great. Thanks, Andrew. And Dan, you've held many leadership roles throughout your career, obviously, now CEO in your current position. What advice would you have for an aspiring leader? And what should they be thinking about or doing?

Dan Draper

[00:22:23]

Yes. Look, I think a lot of what Andrew talked about kind of early career, I mean, it still applies. I think being able to have this mentality of continuously learning. And I think now, no matter where you are in your career, you're going to have to upgrade skills, knowledge.

And a lot, as you get more senior, is then getting great teams in place, right, who are also learning together as a team and being able to complement each other as things move quickly. I mean, the demands of stakeholders at whatever level, customers, or anyone from the outside, they're just going to be growing clearly in a very socially media active world.

So I think heightened communication and kind of alignment. But just absolutely, as you get more senior, just putting great teams and great people in place building trust in the organization, I think, is paramount.

And just getting back to my first comment, I think innovation, probably one of the inflection points in my career was getting involved in ETFs, in that industry early, and that was when I was in Europe. ETFs didn't exist when I graduated from college.

So you kind of -- so, I'd say for people out there, there's technology that's emerging now, or new client channel opportunities, or product areas, just -- life is not going to be kind of a linear pathway. But if you can be opportunistic, build a fantastic network and just keep learning, there's a lot of opportunity for ambitious, talented people.

Joe Cass

[00:23:44]

Great. Thanks, Dan.

Andrew Schlossberg

[00:23:47]

Well said. Well said.

Joe Cass

[00:23:48]

So Andrew, similar to Dan, you spent some time working in London. So I just wanted to see if a rumor was true that while you're over here, you and your family became fans of Chelsea. Is that true?

Andrew Schlossberg

[00:24:01]

I know. It's true. It's true. I know I'll offend many.

Joe Cass

[00:24:06]

So was it something that you were going to games every week? Did you get a season ticket? Or were you just kind of dipping your toe at it?

Andrew Schlossberg

[00:24:14]

No, no, no, we were full in. My son who's 17 now was maybe 6 or 7 at the time. And so he really got us on the path. And we knew nothing about soccer football before we came to the U.K. And in all honesty, we adopted Chelsea for not the traditional U.K. reasons of multi-generational or other reasons. My son liked the color blue.

The training ground was near where we were living. I think Chelsea might have been on the cover of FIFA video game at the end of the year. And so it was for those reasons. But since then, I mean, we had season tickets when we were there. We were fortunate to have that. Our dog is named Chelsea, which is confusing.

Dan Draper

[00:24:58]

Andrew, our dog is named Chelsea, too, by the way.

Andrew Schlossberg

[00:25:01]

Get out of here.

Dan Draper

[00:25:02]

That's true.

Andrew Schlossberg

[00:25:03]

Well, when you -- when we watch the matches -- that's funny. When we watch the matches and you yell at the TV, she looks very confused. But yes, it is true. But on a more serious note, the one thing I've really -- aside from just enjoying the sport and when I lived there, it -- creating a more camaraderie and I think a little more of connection, I guess, to living in the U.K., which was great.

And then since moving from the U.K., whether it's in the U.S. or whether I travel around the world, I love that football and sometimes Chelsea is a connector. And it really kind of reminds me how global we are and how similar people are, too, family, sports, food, these are sort of connectors.

And it just reminded me -- reminds me of that wherever you are around the world. So it's pretty cool. And I'm sorry because I can see your West Ham scarf now. So apologies, but it's my son's fault.

Joe Cass

[00:26:04]

No problem. No problem. No apologies needed. So Dan, we'll stick to football just for one more question.

Dan Draper

[00:26:11]

Sure.

Joe Cass

[00:26:11]

So you've also lived on and off in London. So two questions. Did you catch any games during your time in the U.K.? And also, so you've lived in four different countries and kind of like the melting pot of countries. So given the World Cups coming to the U.S. next year, 2026, what team are you going to be rooting for?

Dan Draper

[00:26:33]

Great question. Wow, it's multiple questions. Well, starting at the top. So yes, you're right. I had the great fortune like Andrew to live in London, lived there 14 years, met my wife, two out of my three daughters were born there. So yes, it's formative and so many incredible relationships built there.

So related to football, our dog is named Chelsea, not so much for the football team, but my daughters were born at Chelsea Westminster Hospital, but it is -- her name is Chelsea. I have to admit, Chelsea is a great football club. I just frankly found it easier to get tickets to go to Fulham.

And so it's neighborhood arrival, but also about 15 years ago, Fulham had at one stage, I think, five or six American players. Clint Dempsey and the others. So anyway, I just kind of was -- it was a little cheaper and easier to get into Fulham and they had all the Americans playing.

So I kind of keep an eye on Fulham on that side. But as Andrew said, it is a tremendous connector to be able -- And I think sports, in general. Yes, look, I've had the fortune -- also, as you mentioned, the U.K., but lived in Hong Kong, Indonesia earlier in my career. And yes, I'm just personally, I think, being able to understand different cultures and broaden -- I mean, I grew up in a small town of about 700 people.

So yes, I've been on a journey. And again, it's made kind of not only the career, but my personal life a lot more enriched. In terms of the World Cup, yes, exciting. We'll be rooting my -- wife is originally from New Zealand, but then she also has U.K. passport.

So, I guess, we'll be -- I'm starting with the U.S.A., but we'll have U.K. and then we'll also have the white caps who are the New Zealand team. We hope they qualify. But it'd be great to diversify a little bit who we're rooting for in Los Angeles.

Andrew Schlossberg

[00:28:19]

Fantastic. Yes, we're excited also for the World Cup in Atlanta, which is where I live now and headquartered, and we're going to have a number of matches here, I think, including one of the semifinals. So it will be great fun.

Joe Cass

[00:28:31]

Yes, absolutely. I can't wait.

Dan Draper

[00:28:32]

I'm sorry, you're right. I was thinking L.A is going to be the Olympics, but you're right, it's going to be around -- I think the Final up in New Jersey.

Andrew Schlossberg

[00:28:38]

No. But I don't know -- I think the final -- yes, I think the final is up in New York, but I'm certain there's tons of games in LA, too.

Joe Cass

[00:28:44]

Yes, similar to the kind of AI topic in terms of football as a brand coming from the U.K., obviously, it's massive. And it's interesting to have spoken to people from the U.S. over the past, say, five -- let's say, five or seven years, the whole into Miami thing is needs to be a big driver of people just supporting football in general or just getting into it. So I mean, it's great to see it kind of expand if only a little bit.

Dan Draper

[00:29:10]

Well, my [ transition ] back to the U.S. from London was kind of just surprising that there's already so much American College Football on Saturday afternoons and the NFL on Sunday.

But now all of a sudden, Saturday and Sunday morning, you got EPL. So if you're a global sports fan now, certainly in the U.S. time zone, you're getting your fill of soccer football, everything. So...

Andrew Schlossberg

[00:29:34]

Yes. Well, we -- I do miss the being live at the matches, and there's nothing better than the Premier League. So anyhow, you could tell, Joe, we could talk about this for us for hour, but we'll stop.

Joe Cass

[00:29:45]

Fantastic. We've just got one more question. And Andrew, it's for you. So what's the best piece of advice you were given and who gave it to you.

Andrew Schlossberg

[00:29:52]

Yes. So I've gotten a lot of advice over the years, some solicited, probably more unsolicited. But probably the one that I repeat to myself the most and time to time to other people I'd say it came from my mom and my dad when I was a kid, which was treat other people the way you want to be treated.

And I think it kind of holds true. It's held true through my whole life, and I try to practice that. And so I think that might be the best piece of advice. It's nice and simple, but I think it's true.

Joe Cass

[00:30:28]

Yes. Perfect. Well, great. [Indiscernible 00:30:31]. Thank you so much, Andrew and Dan for your time today, everyone watching, everyone listening. See you next time on the Leaders podcast.

 

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